Alternative energy sources

Krakkkers

My 4kwp system has made over 500 kwh per month from April to August so its been a great year for solar but yes 100 kwh is typical for December and January.
That does just about cover my base load though.

StarTrekkie007

[Deleted User] said:

The problem with solar is that when the sun shines we can have too much of it for the Grid to cope with. Voltage and grid frequency has to be maintained within limits and PV solar exports at a higher than grid voltage. Many domestic solar installations have an export limit because the local grid infrastructure cannot cope.

A much bigger limitation is that solar is not available when it is needed; that is, at night and during the short Winter days. I have a very large solar array: it has generated 740kWh so far this month but only 100kWh last December. The answer is large banks of batteries which are expensive. There is also a round trip loss of 10% to take into account.

I wonder if it is possible that if more energy is created than the Grid can cope with, could the "excess" energy be diverted & sold to other counties ? Other counties could also do the same, their excess energy could be diverted to the UK and other counties that need it. 

When it is night in the UK it could be midday somewhere else, so if we have a system where excess solar panel energy could be diverted to other counties where it is needed .... could this work ?

Also, if solar panels is the solution couldn't the Grid be updated to store more 

Krakkkers

We are already connected to nearby countries.
Unfortunately because the Earth is an oblate spheroid when it is midday here it is midnight 12,000 miles away.

Section62

StarTrekkie007 said:

When it is night in the UK it could be midday somewhere else, so if we have a system where excess solar panel energy could be diverted to other counties where it is needed .... could this work ?

The losses of transmitting the electricity from that 'midday' place to the UK would be considerable, not to mention the cost of building the transmission route.

Connecting different grids together does make sense in terms of moving electricity from areas of surplus to areas of deficit, but the "we are being ripped off by criminal energy companies" hive mind of the MSE forum has already decreed that we should become a self-sufficient island cut off (in energy terms) from our neighbours.  So that might not be an option in future.

In reality, it may work out cheaper to burn very expensive gas to make our electricity, rather than transmitting 'free' solar half way round the World.

And of course there's no telling when that 'midday' place (or anywhere along the transmission route) may have a war.

FreeBear

Solar power doesn't have to be with photovoltaic panels. If yo have space, a solar thermal plant could be an option. e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpah_Solar_Power_Facility

1)But to invest in a plant operating in Spain and then have the energy shipped to the UK is not a practical or viable option.

2)Wave power is a thing, but it is an area that has historically suffered from very low investment in research. That is slowly changing, and a few small scale projects are starting to come on line. Most of these are around the coast of Scotland where they have some pretty strong currents.

3) There have been schemes to encourage the installation of solar PV panels on domestic roofs. The Feed-in-Tariff scheme was very attractive when it was first introduced, and we saw an explosion of rent-a-roof companies making a nuisance of themselves (remember cold calls about solar panels ?). Then there were various "Green Deal" schemes that invariably ended costing the home owner a lot more than they were led to believe - Either through misleading claims about savings, hidden interest charges, or overpriced equipment/installation costs.

Small scale nuclear power stations (and nuclear batteries) is one area that should be explored further - Reactors that are small enough to fit in to a standard shipping container would solve a number of problems. i.e. Low cost, quickly deployed, returned to manufacturer for decommissioning, etc.

StarTrekkie007

Krakkkers said:

We are already connected to nearby countries.
Unfortunately because the Earth is an oblate spheroid when it is midday here it is midnight 12,000 miles away.

The diversion of energy does not have to be a direct path from A to B. Excess energy can be diverted to the next country and it hops from country to country until it reaches its destination 
(like packets of data moving across the internet)

Section62

StarTrekkie007 said:

Krakkkers said:

We are already connected to nearby countries.
Unfortunately because the Earth is an oblate spheroid when it is midday here it is midnight 12,000 miles away.

The diversion of energy does not have to be a direct path from A to B. Excess energy can be diverted to the next country and it hops from country to country until it reaches its destination 
(like packets of data moving across the internet)

But unlike packets of data moving across the internet, you can't label a 'packet' of electricity saying "this one is mine".  So the end result has to be a system where energy added and taken off a shared grid has to be done through some form of international trading.

And lots of folks here don't want international trading of energy because that is the root of all evil profiteering (apparently).

QrizB

StarTrekkie007 said:

Wondering if it would be good to consider what this country can do to setup new energy sources.

Last year the Government ran Allocation Round 3 for renewable energy and agreed contracts for about 12GW of new generation capacity, to come on line over the next 3-4 years.

This year they ran AR4 and added another 11GW.

Next year they plan AR5, and after that AR6 etc.

Full details at https://www.lowcarboncontracts.uk/ if you're interested (although I don't think AR4 has made it onto their charts yet). AR4 info is here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/contracts-for-difference-cfd-allocation-round-4-results

[Deleted User]

FreeBear said:

Solar power doesn't have to be with photovoltaic panels. If yo have space, a solar thermal plant could be an option. e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpah_Solar_Power_Facility

1)But to invest in a plant operating in Spain and then have the energy shipped to the UK is not a practical or viable option.

2

So why is the man who used to run Tesco involved in a solar project in Morocco that will transfer electricity by undersea cable to the UK?

https://electrek.co/2022/04/21/the-worlds-longest-subsea-cable-will-send-clean-energy-from-morocco-to-the-uk/

DC power transmission can make long distance power exchange possible.

FreeBear

[Deleted User] said:

FreeBear said:

Solar power doesn't have to be with photovoltaic panels. If yo have space, a solar thermal plant could be an option. e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpah_Solar_Power_Facility

1)But to invest in a plant operating in Spain and then have the energy shipped to the UK is not a practical or viable option.

2

So why is the man who used to run Tesco involved in a solar project in Morocco that will transfer electricity by undersea cable to the UK?

https://electrek.co/2022/04/21/the-worlds-longest-subsea-cable-will-send-clean-energy-from-morocco-to-the-uk/

DC power transmission can make long distance power exchange possible.

Missed that. But from the article, it is going to cost some $22.9 billion, and create 10,000 jobs in Morocco (2,000 permanent).

When complete, it will have capacity to deliver 7.2GW to the UK. But a cable of 3,800Km is bound to suffer from regular faults, and if when there is any political unrest in Morocco, it could affect the supply.