Buyer wants to reduce offer after I've signed and sent contract

getmore4less

 look at the market to see what options they have if they walk.

That would be current asking, all the SSTC and the sold through prices. 

Can they get anything close, has the market moved etc.

aoleks

the "market" won't tell you what state other houses are in. it could be a property that sold for £5k more, but has just had a rewire, a new roof and loft insulation installed.

Ath_Wat

m4ry444 said:

Ath_Wat said:

m4ry444 said:

Ath_Wat said:

m4ry444 said:

lisyloo said:

How much are they expecting you to cover? The full £23k?
i would understand them wanting a reduction, but expecting you to cover everything so they get a new roof and electrics is not reasonable.
a common starting point might be 50/50

can you tell us how much they’ve dropped their offer?
how does the new offer compare with the others and EAs/your view of market value now you have full visibility of defects? 

Dont throw your your toys out the Parm, take time reflect and try to be objective
you don’t need to answer emails immediately
are they serious?
are they being reasonable?
is the new offer ok given the defects?
is there room for negotiation? (They probably haven’t given you their bottom line).

They've dropped it by 18k which puts the offer 2k above our lowest offer. They said they're serious and this is shown how much they've paid already in surveys and tradesmen. The EA didn't have much to say about it really. 

How much is it below the highest offer you received apart from theirs?

It's 13k below. 

What do you think the cost is of fixing  the joists?  If this is going to stop a mortgage then clearly everyone would have to account for it.

They've had a quote around 4k. Considering covering that but nothing else 

If it were me I would at least consider going to 4K below the second highest offer you had - that, taking into account the joists, is the highest alternative you received (assuming they'd have asked for 4k off for the joists as well)

deano2099

aoleks said:

that's exactly what I'm saying, it's a negotiation, not an emotional game where people are "chancing" it. this is not about betterment, it's about hidden defects that were not clear at the viewing stage.

It could be, it could be someone chancing it also. None of us know the state of mind of the buyer. It could be that they thought this stuff wouldn't need doing, and so put in an offer assuming it wouldn't. It could also be that they knew based on the age of the house that some of this could be required, and will actually still pay the original price, but are seeing if they can get a discount just because legally you can, so why not?
I disagree with those saying the sellers are definitely "chancers" but I also disagree with the notion that they're definitely not. 

macman

Typical FTB's, buying a 150 year old property and expecting to be perfect and conform to today's regs.
With the exception of the joists, none of these things are 'defects'. The roof is old, and unless it's already leaking, might need changing in the next few years. The wiring will not conform to the 18th edn regs, because they only came out in 2019, unless it's been rewired since. There is no requirement to retrofit, and it does not mean that every install prior to 2019 is unsafe. The chimney pointing is also relatively trivial, and easily done if the roof is replaced.
If their own surveyor has valued it higher than the offer, then that's your response. 
If the joists are preventing the mortgage release, then you've little option but to fix that yourself: if it's obvious, it's going to be the same issue with any other potential buyer.

m4ry444

aoleks said:

lisyloo said:

aoleks said:

Leaving aside some other factors, such as communication between two parties involving estate agents who are not the brightest people and the fact that we don’t know all the details, I think it’s a simple case:

Buyer made an offer on the assumption that the house ia in good shape. Some things are only revealed at the survey stage. If I make an offer but then it comes to light that I need a new roof, then I don’t want that roof to cost me a penny.

This is not about new vs old, our roof is 60 years old, but is in mint condition. Likewise, if the electrics are not 100% safe and up to scratch, they need replacing.then so be it.

A house is only worth what people are prepared to pay for it, so the whole discussion around value is irrelevant. You need to decide if it’s worth risking the deal, given there’s a chance you’ll end up with less money from another buyer who might ask for a reduction for the very same reason.

The last bit I agree with.
the problems will still be there on subsequent sales.

i don’t agree you should expect certain items to be brand new and modern when you buy a second hand property.
if something old gets replaced with something new then that is know as “betterment”.
for example if you crashed your car you would definitely not get a brand new one as a replacement (unless you’d specifically paid to insure that risk).

at the same time if the buyer isn’t happy with the deal they walk away and the “problems remain”.

maybe there is some middle ground?

that's exactly what I'm saying, it's a negotiation, not an emotional game where people are "chancing" it. this is not about betterment, it's about hidden defects that were not clear at the viewing stage. the example gave earlier, with the car, is perfect:

if you sell a car, I would expect it to work properly. I offer £1000 on the assumptions that it will last, but if it turns out, after a mechanical inspection, that it needs a new clutch, than it's not worth £1000 to start with. no need for new parts, just no expensive defects that would cost a lot to repair.

I agree with the car if you're buying a relatively new car. If you're buying a vintage car because that's what you like, you expect that there's more likely to be repairs made.

I bought a 150 year old house because I wanted an old house expecting that I might have to put some money into it should something go wrong. Luckily it didn't whilst I lived here. Surely that is something to at least consider when you're buying old property

GDB2222

Does the joists quote cover all making good, as there may be a lot of disruption to the floor above? Also, will the ground floor have to be cleared of all furniture, so the work can be done?  It may mean that a buyer can't move in for some time, until the work has been done?

At the end of the day, this reduced offer is part of a negotiation. You need to work out what you can reliably get for the house, and what the costs and risks are of switching buyers and delaying your onward purchase.   

Sarah1Mitty2

GDB2222 said:

Does the joists quote cover all making good, as there may be a lot of disruption to the floor above? Also, will the ground floor have to be cleared of all furniture, so the work can be done?  It may mean that a buyer can't move in for some time, until the work has been done?

At the end of the day, this reduced offer is part of a negotiation. You need to work out what you can reliably get for the house, and what the costs and risks are of switching buyers and delaying your onward purchase.   

That`s it, depending on the market there could be big risks in trying to switch buyers.

GDB2222

m4ry444 said:

aoleks said:

lisyloo said:

aoleks said:

Leaving aside some other factors, such as communication between two parties involving estate agents who are not the brightest people and the fact that we don’t know all the details, I think it’s a simple case:

Buyer made an offer on the assumption that the house ia in good shape. Some things are only revealed at the survey stage. If I make an offer but then it comes to light that I need a new roof, then I don’t want that roof to cost me a penny.

This is not about new vs old, our roof is 60 years old, but is in mint condition. Likewise, if the electrics are not 100% safe and up to scratch, they need replacing.then so be it.

A house is only worth what people are prepared to pay for it, so the whole discussion around value is irrelevant. You need to decide if it’s worth risking the deal, given there’s a chance you’ll end up with less money from another buyer who might ask for a reduction for the very same reason.

The last bit I agree with.
the problems will still be there on subsequent sales.

i don’t agree you should expect certain items to be brand new and modern when you buy a second hand property.
if something old gets replaced with something new then that is know as “betterment”.
for example if you crashed your car you would definitely not get a brand new one as a replacement (unless you’d specifically paid to insure that risk).

at the same time if the buyer isn’t happy with the deal they walk away and the “problems remain”.

maybe there is some middle ground?

that's exactly what I'm saying, it's a negotiation, not an emotional game where people are "chancing" it. this is not about betterment, it's about hidden defects that were not clear at the viewing stage. the example gave earlier, with the car, is perfect:

if you sell a car, I would expect it to work properly. I offer £1000 on the assumptions that it will last, but if it turns out, after a mechanical inspection, that it needs a new clutch, than it's not worth £1000 to start with. no need for new parts, just no expensive defects that would cost a lot to repair.

I agree with the car if you're buying a relatively new car. If you're buying a vintage car because that's what you like, you expect that there's more likely to be repairs made.

I bought a 150 year old house because I wanted an old house expecting that I might have to put some money into it should something go wrong. Luckily it didn't whilst I lived here. Surely that is something to at least consider when you're buying old property

The fact that you have not spent much on maintenance- I really struggle to see how that is a plus point. Maybe, if the house were still in tip top condition. But, it isn’t, is it?  Or, maybe I have missed the point that you are making?

robatwork

m4ry444 said:

I bought a 150 year old house because I wanted an old house expecting that I might have to put some money into it should something go wrong. Luckily it didn't whilst I lived here. Surely that is something to at least consider when you're buying old property

That's not strictly true. Your joists rotted (further) and are now considered vital to replace. That didn't just happen in the last month, you just didn't take care of it/didn't notice it. 

This (and to some extent the electrics) aren't things a FTB will necessarily notice before offering, and you should be expected to negotiate. However £4-5k reduction sounds about right.