Pay regarding secondment gone perm

Dakta

Just wondering on opinions, on this secondment permanent pay conundrum

A year ago took a secondment for a more technical role, to give some scale my old role was advertised at circa 30-40k depending on experience, and I was on 30k. Role I seconded to was 40k + negotiable

Secondment done very informally (I know, I know) and I stayed on some rate however did speak to manager about wages when he offered it permanent and he said we'd review after a fresh 6 month probation (doesn't the secondment count? - in the grand scheme its not important)

That manager left before probation ended and the new temp manager whilst mentioning to the wider team he wanted to do reviews, when the time came nothing happened and we've just got a new permanent replacement manager so I've raised a meeting to discuss which they assured me wasn't a negative matter, my question was going to be along the lines of 'can we have a chat about salaries for members doing the same role, check if I'm on scope and perform the promised review if not' - i thought that'd be reasonable as it does leave the door open to raise any genuine performance issues or any good reason to not in range. I know there's no real reason legal or otherwise for a company to pay any more than you are happy to work for but a review was kinda the reason i took this. I'd have not if it was just a more demanding role for the same wonga (technically less as there's no overtime). Ha sucks to be me.

Anyway, the meeting was supposed to take place middle of last week but due to operational reasons and a crisis it got cancelled and we're having a chat this week now apparently. That's fine except for one big issue:

I got contacted by a recruiter at the end of last week who blitzed me through 3 interviews in 2 days - (I'd filed my cv with them ages ago) and actually quite by accident and a whirlwind of a recruitment process won a similar position at another company for say 45k (my current role is advertised at 40k + neg, and I'm on 33k as per my old role)

I'm mulling things over this weekend, i've kind of got what I want in a way, in fact even better as my real aim was to get as close to the advertised rate for my role as possible, but it means jumping companies and I do actually like the company I work for.

Stockholm syndrome aside, given the difference between my current salary and the new job offer is >10k is there any merit you would think to being fair to my management and raising at this meeting 'I have actually been offerered this and see if that helps persuade them up up the ante?

This is a bit similar I suppose to hoping you get a counter offer from a company, and as much as they say you should never seriously consider a counteroffer if one was given I'd consider it because pay actually is my crisis. There's every chance they could say fox off but if I took this opportunity notice would be soon coming anyway?

Thoughts on a postcard thankiesyou 

Wyndham

They haven't looked after you, and the difference is substantial. Why would you want to stay? What's holding you there?

(Stockholm syndrome may well be the answer...? )

Dakta

I think even though it was said jokingly, you're actually touching a real problem there,  I don't let it show at work but I *think* I suffer from anxiety or something because the thought of leaving, going somewhere uncertain and the whole routine change literally fills me with dread, and when I say dread i don;t mean butterflies I mean staying up 3 days straight pondering what to do and blaming myself for letting the recruiter interview me hence creating this very overall positive dilemma - belonging is something i tend to cling to so whilst on paper the answer probably looks clear (and thanks for more or less confirming it) there is a bit of a less rational pehaps emotional element too.

People tell me I should be laughing knowing im going in next week to a negotiation towards a result I've already exceeded, yet I just havne't been able to feel it

That might be where I need to be problem solving 

Wyndham

We all feel uncomfortable with change. Your '3 days straight' may be slightly unusual, but overall I do understand that fear of the unknown. I've (mostly) got over it by doing it a few times, and realising that the change can be for the better - and if it's not, it's not for the rest of my life, and I can change again if I need to. I'm in my fifties by the way, and it took me many years to get to this stage. Don't ask me how I was in my 30s!

mcpitman

Hi, this is why it always pertinent to hold current managers or HR members to account and datelines when promises are made.

However as your current firm have messed you about a bit (or you haven't been assertive enough). I would suggest resigning to take the new role (@ +33% to current salary) and see what they say.

Warning though, as a "senior" manager I don't even entertain counter offers, if you've looked, you've already disconnected from the current firm and even where a counter offer has been made, I have learnt that the employee is probably off in 6 months anyway (using the new counter offered salary to better the new role compensation they are looking for).

Possibly once or twice in 20 years of "hiring manager" roles has a counter offer worked and been a substantive agreement.

Dakta

Thanks for all the input!

State of play is that I've accepted the new role offer, and I'm going to try and manage my attachment/anxiety/whatever you want to call it - whilst I can't give a rational reason why it has pretty much occupied my thought process day and night for the last few weeks and it has had an impact. I am struggling very hard to distract myself from it and nothing seems fun anymore, but itl bounce back eventually I hope 

I've worked alongside my new manager all today and there's been no mention of this meeting happening so I think after finding out others have been through similar that they're just trying to not have the conversation and would rather avoid it than say no. I've so come to the conclusion that whilst my current manager has the gift of the gab that it's ultimately amateur management so I'm doing all I can, (though it isn't easy) to focus on the few role and let go of the old, though due to background checks and security it could be a while before notice even goes in

There is one remaining question, and it's a moral one - I'm supposed to begin a training certification shortly and I might have time to do it before I hand my notice in. I'm going to check my contract but I don't think there is a course/training clause - would you do it? It would normally be totally against my ethics but theres only a few days before it starts and if I try and cancel it they'll want to know why. 

 appreciate the above probably seems like a **** move, to cancel would possibly raise a flare but to not would be to take advantage 

Savvy_Sue

I'd do it. You haven't got to the stage of being ready to give notice. 

I'd probably do it even if there is a training clause, and be prepared to pay them for it, if it's something that would be potentially useful. 

The alternative would be to find a plausible excuse for not doing it - "I just realised I've got a few days leave booked / a really hectic period which would mean I'd have to miss part of it, seems best to put it off" - if you really fee bad about it. 

Dakta

Thanks, I think I'd better check for a clause as it's a few grand 😂 but it it would actually mean a lot.

Not end of the world if I didn't it but I just don't want to attract attention . I've a feeling notice is going to be some time off so I'm just going to try and play model employee in the meantime

I do find it odd how larger companies consciously burn their way through mumbers of good candidates with an obstinate refusal to look after them even when it visibly costs. 

It has taken me now nearly a year to get a conversation on my salary from management, by comparison once confident enough it only took a few days to best it by over 10k...

Ivrytwr3

They've strung you along with false promises and paying you a hefty fraction of your worth. You're talking about ethics and quibbling over a few grand course?

I'd say you'd earned the course!

Also stay strong, they've fobbed you off meeting to discuss the salary review and they'll go into panic mode trying to keep you when you turn in your notice. Tell them they had the opportunity to keep you, but the salary review never happened and you don't feel valued, therefore you were forced to look elsewhere for someone who would value your skills.

If you do decide to accept a counter offer, get everything in writing - do not accept more false promises. Personally i'd be out the door and take this as a lesson, they exploited you, but you allowed yourself to be exploited.

 

SensibleSarah

Congrats on the new role! 
Jumping on this a bit late but I experienced a similar situation with my last employer - started on a lower salary than I should have due to my circumstances at the time, was told it'd be reviewed after 3 months probation - and more than 5 years later I was still waiting despite me regularly pushing - more fool me! I also get a fair bit of anxiety over change and taking risks in my working life but I had to just bite the bullet in the end. Not regretted it for a second - although I went freelance rather than another employed role. 

Good luck!

Dakta

Thankyou, don't worry about jumping on this late, I welcome opinions thoughts and experiences - it's good to hear you yourself managed a positive outcome - I've overthought this to the point of perplexion so one of the main purposes of this thread is to get that outside opinion. If the general consensus falls in with my feelings on the situation we're probably not a mile out