Virgin claiming they didn’t receive my monthly payment and 0% interest taken whilst payment was made

Dimanche_Prochain

binao said:

Dimanche_Prochain said:

artyboy said:

Ebe_Scrooge said:

artyboy said:

I wonder if there is any devil in the detail of the T&Cs here.

Ultimately the payment has been made - yes the OP didn't include all the requested detail here but nonetheless, Virgin will have received the money. And ultimately isn't that detail effectively a courtesy to Virgin to assist them with automated allocation of payments? Or do the T&Cs state that without it, they can consider the payment not to have been made?

From a purely practical viewpoint, how else could it work?  Virgin must receive tens of thousands of payments from customers every month.  Payments go into Virgin's account, and from there are assigned to the correct customer's account based on the customer's unique reference code.  Without the unique payment reference, Virgin can see the money coming into their account, but have no way of knowing where that payment came from.

Similar, but on a much smaller scale ... I'm a member of a sports club, and most members pay their membership fees online.  We ask them to put their name as the reference, then we know who's paid.  Sometimes people forget to put their name on the reference, so we don't know who it's from.  So it's a case of sending out an email to ask who has and hasn't paid, and trying to work it out - or just asking folk the next time we get together.

That's workable when you've got a few dozen members, but somewhat impractical if you're talking tens of thousands of customers.

I don't disagree with you, I just feel it's a bit harsh on the OP if they lose a major financial benefit due to a minor admin error. So if asking Virgin nicely doesn't elicit a good result, I would really be tempted to look at the T&C detail here

As you said, payments go into Virgin's account, so technically the OP has made the payment to Virgin. It's then a question of whether the fact it hasn't been specifically allocated to their account is grounds for revoking the 0% deal. I don't know the answer but it would be worth checking. 

I also wonder if this was pushed as a complaint, who the ombudsman would ultimately side with... it's an easy mistake to make with (arguably) a disproportionate impact. What if the OP had put the number on but got one digit wrong? Far far too easy for something to go wrong and get missed with no validation process, and the onus entirely on the customer...

9.3 The Minimum Payment must reach your account after your statement date and by the payment date shown on your statement. If you receive a refund to your account after your statement date, you must still pay the remaining balance or the Minimum Payment. If you pay before your statement date, your balance will be reduced but the payment will not count towards the Minimum Payment. 

I would argue that "your account" is exactly what it says, your account, not theirs and thus they would be correct in refusing to reinstate the offer/delete the adverse information if that is what they wish to do.

The important word is "REACH". Last spq.

Don't badger them, they may well see the gleam of  future profitable interest and forgive you.

Sit tight and quite for now. 

Well no, the important word is "your" as in "your account" as the OP's argument is that they had the money, so where it was is entirely the important factor here.  And it would appear their T&C's cover that as it was not in the OP's account.

binao

Dimanche_Prochain said:

binao said:

Dimanche_Prochain said:

artyboy said:

Ebe_Scrooge said:

artyboy said:

I wonder if there is any devil in the detail of the T&Cs here.

Ultimately the payment has been made - yes the OP didn't include all the requested detail here but nonetheless, Virgin will have received the money. And ultimately isn't that detail effectively a courtesy to Virgin to assist them with automated allocation of payments? Or do the T&Cs state that without it, they can consider the payment not to have been made?

From a purely practical viewpoint, how else could it work?  Virgin must receive tens of thousands of payments from customers every month.  Payments go into Virgin's account, and from there are assigned to the correct customer's account based on the customer's unique reference code.  Without the unique payment reference, Virgin can see the money coming into their account, but have no way of knowing where that payment came from.

Similar, but on a much smaller scale ... I'm a member of a sports club, and most members pay their membership fees online.  We ask them to put their name as the reference, then we know who's paid.  Sometimes people forget to put their name on the reference, so we don't know who it's from.  So it's a case of sending out an email to ask who has and hasn't paid, and trying to work it out - or just asking folk the next time we get together.

That's workable when you've got a few dozen members, but somewhat impractical if you're talking tens of thousands of customers.

I don't disagree with you, I just feel it's a bit harsh on the OP if they lose a major financial benefit due to a minor admin error. So if asking Virgin nicely doesn't elicit a good result, I would really be tempted to look at the T&C detail here

As you said, payments go into Virgin's account, so technically the OP has made the payment to Virgin. It's then a question of whether the fact it hasn't been specifically allocated to their account is grounds for revoking the 0% deal. I don't know the answer but it would be worth checking. 

I also wonder if this was pushed as a complaint, who the ombudsman would ultimately side with... it's an easy mistake to make with (arguably) a disproportionate impact. What if the OP had put the number on but got one digit wrong? Far far too easy for something to go wrong and get missed with no validation process, and the onus entirely on the customer...

9.3 The Minimum Payment must reach your account after your statement date and by the payment date shown on your statement. If you receive a refund to your account after your statement date, you must still pay the remaining balance or the Minimum Payment. If you pay before your statement date, your balance will be reduced but the payment will not count towards the Minimum Payment. 

I would argue that "your account" is exactly what it says, your account, not theirs and thus they would be correct in refusing to reinstate the offer/delete the adverse information if that is what they wish to do.

The important word is "REACH". Last spq.

Don't badger them, they may well see the gleam of  future profitable interest and forgive you.

Sit tight and quite for now. 

Well no, the important word is "your" as in "your account" as the OP's argument is that they had the money, so where it was is entirely the important factor here.  And it would appear their T&C's cover that as it was not in the OP's account.

Welcome to the forum @Dimanche_Prochain

Can we agree on "reach your account".

As the funds did not reach the OPs account then the OP needs to sit tight and hope for the best.

QED

cymruchris

If the requirements for getting a free jam doughnut were:

1 - Stand on your head
2 - Take a photo 
3 - Email it to John

And you didn't stand on your head - you'd not be getting a free jam doughnut.

If the requirements for paying your bill were:

1 - Use the correct sort code
2 - Use the correct account number
3 - Insert your 16 digit card number as the payee reference 

And you missed out the third step - you're not going to be getting credit for that payment as you normally would.  It's quite clear on the Virgin website in terms of what needs to be done, and you've missed a key step in the process, and so are at the mercy of their goodwill to credit the payment and update everything accordingly when they find it. They aren't under any obligation to do so though, and could register a late/missed payment on your credit file.  You can be as stubborn and argumentative as you like, but you ultimately made the error. I would be being very nice and apologetic to their customer services to try and get it put right. I'd also be making another payment to ensure there wasn't a late marker on my account. But that's me. If you dig your heels in, it can hurt you more than necessary. 

artyboy

Dimanche_Prochain said:

artyboy said:

Dimanche_Prochain said:

binao said:

Dimanche_Prochain said:

binao said:

Dimanche_Prochain said:

artyboy said:

Ebe_Scrooge said:

artyboy said:

I wonder if there is any devil in the detail of the T&Cs here.

Ultimately the payment has been made - yes the OP didn't include all the requested detail here but nonetheless, Virgin will have received the money. And ultimately isn't that detail effectively a courtesy to Virgin to assist them with automated allocation of payments? Or do the T&Cs state that without it, they can consider the payment not to have been made?

From a purely practical viewpoint, how else could it work?  Virgin must receive tens of thousands of payments from customers every month.  Payments go into Virgin's account, and from there are assigned to the correct customer's account based on the customer's unique reference code.  Without the unique payment reference, Virgin can see the money coming into their account, but have no way of knowing where that payment came from.

Similar, but on a much smaller scale ... I'm a member of a sports club, and most members pay their membership fees online.  We ask them to put their name as the reference, then we know who's paid.  Sometimes people forget to put their name on the reference, so we don't know who it's from.  So it's a case of sending out an email to ask who has and hasn't paid, and trying to work it out - or just asking folk the next time we get together.

That's workable when you've got a few dozen members, but somewhat impractical if you're talking tens of thousands of customers.

I don't disagree with you, I just feel it's a bit harsh on the OP if they lose a major financial benefit due to a minor admin error. So if asking Virgin nicely doesn't elicit a good result, I would really be tempted to look at the T&C detail here

As you said, payments go into Virgin's account, so technically the OP has made the payment to Virgin. It's then a question of whether the fact it hasn't been specifically allocated to their account is grounds for revoking the 0% deal. I don't know the answer but it would be worth checking. 

I also wonder if this was pushed as a complaint, who the ombudsman would ultimately side with... it's an easy mistake to make with (arguably) a disproportionate impact. What if the OP had put the number on but got one digit wrong? Far far too easy for something to go wrong and get missed with no validation process, and the onus entirely on the customer...

9.3 The Minimum Payment must reach your account after your statement date and by the payment date shown on your statement. If you receive a refund to your account after your statement date, you must still pay the remaining balance or the Minimum Payment. If you pay before your statement date, your balance will be reduced but the payment will not count towards the Minimum Payment. 

I would argue that "your account" is exactly what it says, your account, not theirs and thus they would be correct in refusing to reinstate the offer/delete the adverse information if that is what they wish to do.

The important word is "REACH". Last spq.

Don't badger them, they may well see the gleam of  future profitable interest and forgive you.

Sit tight and quite for now. 

Well no, the important word is "your" as in "your account" as the OP's argument is that they had the money, so where it was is entirely the important factor here.  And it would appear their T&C's cover that as it was not in the OP's account.

Welcome to the forum @Dimanche_Prochain

Can we agree on "reach your account".

As the funds did not reach the OPs account then the OP needs to sit tight and hope for the best.

QED

No, we can agree on the account it actually reached.

It "reached an account that Virgin operated" so that is not the issue.  The issue is whose account it reached, which was not, as per the T&Cs, the customers.

I can carry on arguing forever if you want, or you can just accept that you're wrong.

You're going to fit in just fine around here 

I'm not interested in popularity contests.

I refer you to my previous answer...

born_again

Dimanche_Prochain said:

binao said:

Dimanche_Prochain said:

artyboy said:

Ebe_Scrooge said:

artyboy said:

I wonder if there is any devil in the detail of the T&Cs here.

Ultimately the payment has been made - yes the OP didn't include all the requested detail here but nonetheless, Virgin will have received the money. And ultimately isn't that detail effectively a courtesy to Virgin to assist them with automated allocation of payments? Or do the T&Cs state that without it, they can consider the payment not to have been made?

From a purely practical viewpoint, how else could it work?  Virgin must receive tens of thousands of payments from customers every month.  Payments go into Virgin's account, and from there are assigned to the correct customer's account based on the customer's unique reference code.  Without the unique payment reference, Virgin can see the money coming into their account, but have no way of knowing where that payment came from.

Similar, but on a much smaller scale ... I'm a member of a sports club, and most members pay their membership fees online.  We ask them to put their name as the reference, then we know who's paid.  Sometimes people forget to put their name on the reference, so we don't know who it's from.  So it's a case of sending out an email to ask who has and hasn't paid, and trying to work it out - or just asking folk the next time we get together.

That's workable when you've got a few dozen members, but somewhat impractical if you're talking tens of thousands of customers.

I don't disagree with you, I just feel it's a bit harsh on the OP if they lose a major financial benefit due to a minor admin error. So if asking Virgin nicely doesn't elicit a good result, I would really be tempted to look at the T&C detail here

As you said, payments go into Virgin's account, so technically the OP has made the payment to Virgin. It's then a question of whether the fact it hasn't been specifically allocated to their account is grounds for revoking the 0% deal. I don't know the answer but it would be worth checking. 

I also wonder if this was pushed as a complaint, who the ombudsman would ultimately side with... it's an easy mistake to make with (arguably) a disproportionate impact. What if the OP had put the number on but got one digit wrong? Far far too easy for something to go wrong and get missed with no validation process, and the onus entirely on the customer...

9.3 The Minimum Payment must reach your account after your statement date and by the payment date shown on your statement. If you receive a refund to your account after your statement date, you must still pay the remaining balance or the Minimum Payment. If you pay before your statement date, your balance will be reduced but the payment will not count towards the Minimum Payment. 

I would argue that "your account" is exactly what it says, your account, not theirs and thus they would be correct in refusing to reinstate the offer/delete the adverse information if that is what they wish to do.

The important word is "REACH". Last spq.

Don't badger them, they may well see the gleam of  future profitable interest and forgive you.

Sit tight and quite for now. 

Well no, the important word is "your" as in "your account" as the OP's argument is that they had the money, so where it was is entirely the important factor here.  And it would appear their T&C's cover that as it was not in the OP's account.

Unlike a Current account. payments DO NOT go direct to you Credit Card Account. They go to a holding account & then are automatically transferred over to your account using the reference you provide.

Which is why a wrong or no reference means a problem.

Someone has to manually go through these to try & sort out. Which really means, as there is no way to do that. They have to wait till someone asks where their payment is & hope from the details they are then given it can be found.