Northern Rail Penalty Fare

vegansaver

Some of you are far too harsh. Why is everyone treated like they are a criminal these days? It's really sad to see the way society has gone.

I feel for the OP, there's been a few times I've been in a similar situation, ticket office closed, only one ticket machine and a long queue meaning I've a choice of missing my train or jumping on it and asking the conductor for a ticket.

Thankfully, I've clearly been lucky that there has been a conductor on the train that I've gone and found and he has been happy to give me a ticket, understanding that I'm not trying to commit an offence.

These days though i have a plan B and that's the train app on my phone, so worst case scenario, I buy a ticket and if no conductor show it to the staff at the other end, who let me go collect it from a ticket machine.

If i were the op, I'd appeal and explain the situation, letting them know you're a frequent train traveller and you didn't think it'd be a problem, but in future in the event such a situation happens again you'll make sure you have a valid ticket before boarding and hope they'll be understanding. 

dil1976

vegansaver said:

Some of you are far too harsh. Why is everyone treated like they are a criminal these days? It's really sad to see the way society has gone.

I feel for the OP, there's been a few times I've been in a similar situation, ticket office closed, only one ticket machine and a long queue meaning I've a choice of missing my train or jumping on it and asking the conductor for a ticket.

Thankfully, I've clearly been lucky that there has been a conductor on the train that I've gone and found and he has been happy to give me a ticket, understanding that I'm not trying to commit an offence.

These days though i have a plan B and that's the train app on my phone, so worst case scenario, I buy a ticket and if no conductor show it to the staff at the other end, who let me go collect it from a ticket machine.

If i were the op, I'd appeal and explain the situation, letting them know you're a frequent train traveller and you didn't think it'd be a problem, but in future in the event such a situation happens again you'll make sure you have a valid ticket before boarding and hope they'll be understanding. 

The fact the OP used to the following line " and our train was due any minute. " would indicate that they didn't leave anywhere near enough time to obtain a ticket before traveling

outtatune

vegansaver said:

Some of you are far too harsh. Why is everyone treated like they are a criminal these days? It's really sad to see the way society has gone.

I feel for the OP, there's been a few times I've been in a similar situation, ticket office closed, only one ticket machine and a long queue meaning I've a choice of missing my train or jumping on it and asking the conductor for a ticket.

Thankfully, I've clearly been lucky that there has been a conductor on the train that I've gone and found and he has been happy to give me a ticket, understanding that I'm not trying to commit an offence.

These days though i have a plan B and that's the train app on my phone, so worst case scenario, I buy a ticket and if no conductor show it to the staff at the other end, who let me go collect it from a ticket machine.

If i were the op, I'd appeal and explain the situation, letting them know you're a frequent train traveller and you didn't think it'd be a problem, but in future in the event such a situation happens again you'll make sure you have a valid ticket before boarding and hope they'll be understanding. 

Getting on a train without a ticket is a criminal offence. That's why.

Of course, the OP could appeal to their better nature, thought it would be a bit like explaining to the supermarket that you buy a lot of stuff from them, so you didn't think the odd bit of shoplifting would be a problem, and you'll pay for your shopping in future, and hope they'll be understanding.

GingerTim

vegansaver said:

Some of you are far too harsh. Why is everyone treated like they are a criminal these days? It's really sad to see the way society has gone.

I feel for the OP, there's been a few times I've been in a similar situation, ticket office closed, only one ticket machine and a long queue meaning I've a choice of missing my train or jumping on it and asking the conductor for a ticket.

Thankfully, I've clearly been lucky that there has been a conductor on the train that I've gone and found and he has been happy to give me a ticket, understanding that I'm not trying to commit an offence.

These days though i have a plan B and that's the train app on my phone, so worst case scenario, I buy a ticket and if no conductor show it to the staff at the other end, who let me go collect it from a ticket machine.

If i were the op, I'd appeal and explain the situation, letting them know you're a frequent train traveller and you didn't think it'd be a problem, but in future in the event such a situation happens again you'll make sure you have a valid ticket before boarding and hope they'll be understanding. 

Have a look at https://www.railforums.co.uk/forums/disputes-prosecutions.152/ o  the Rail Forums for how many people are done before not purchasing a ticket before boarding. This includes a good number who think purchasing a ticket on the app for a train that has already departed will be okay -  and are pulled aside on alighting and subsequently prosecuted nevertheless.

[Deleted User]

vegansaver said:

Some of you are far too harsh. Why is everyone treated like they are a criminal these days? It's really sad to see the way society has gone.

I feel for the OP, there's been a few times I've been in a similar situation, ticket office closed, only one ticket machine and a long queue meaning I've a choice of missing my train or jumping on it and asking the conductor for a ticket.

Thankfully, I've clearly been lucky that there has been a conductor on the train that I've gone and found and he has been happy to give me a ticket, understanding that I'm not trying to commit an offence.

These days though i have a plan B and that's the train app on my phone, so worst case scenario, I buy a ticket and if no conductor show it to the staff at the other end, who let me go collect it from a ticket machine.

If i were the op, I'd appeal and explain the situation, letting them know you're a frequent train traveller and you didn't think it'd be a problem, but in future in the event such a situation happens again you'll make sure you have a valid ticket before boarding and hope they'll be understanding. 

It's an offence to get on the train without a ticket (in simple terms)

Why feel for the OP - there are multiple ways to buy tickets in advance including pre-paid collections where the ticket can be picked up from a machine at pretty much any time from purchase date; similarly buying on an app which can be done in 30 seconds on the way to the station or even on the train. Why would you buy a ticket on an app and then go and get the ticket from a machine though? The app barcodes can be scanned on barriers or by the conductor, there is no need for a physical copy.

Appealing against breaking the law on the grounds you don't do it very much is not a valid defence, it's like being caught speeding and then appealing that you normally drive at the limit so would they mind lending you off.

neilprocter

Thanks for the advice guys. 

Brie

When I've boarded a train without a ticket in the past I knew that my first priority was to find someone to sell me a ticket.  If you had found someone and they were unable to sell you one then that would be a reason for not having one.  Personally I hate all the apps one is expected to have on a phone these days.  They seem to me to take up a lot of space and memory.

[Deleted User]

Trainline app on Android is 135mb, less than Starling (163), Teams (320), Amazon (231) etc

A modern phone typically with 32gb-64gb or is more than capable of running this fine.

Further, getting on a train without a ticket at a station with a ticket machine or office (or not obtaining a permit to travel/promise to pay) is itself an offence. You are not allowed to get on without a ticket and seek the conductor, you can get a Penalty Fare issued just by doing this if they feel like it, it's only ok if you got on at a station without such facilities.

Voyager2002

outtatune said:

You're lucky the ticket inspectors believed you and only issued a penalty fare. They could easily have reported you for prosecution.

The penalty fare was issued by "revenue protection officers" who are paid on commission. Since the OP approached them asking to pay a prosecution would not have stood up in court.

Voyager2002

vegansaver said:

Some of you are far too harsh. Why is everyone treated like they are a criminal these days? It's really sad to see the way society has gone.

I feel for the OP, there's been a few times I've been in a similar situation, ticket office closed, only one ticket machine and a long queue meaning I've a choice of missing my train or jumping on it and asking the conductor for a ticket.

Thankfully, I've clearly been lucky that there has been a conductor on the train that I've gone and found and he has been happy to give me a ticket, understanding that I'm not trying to commit an offence.

These days though i have a plan B and that's the train app on my phone, so worst case scenario, I buy a ticket and if no conductor show it to the staff at the other end, who let me go collect it from a ticket machine.

If i were the op, I'd appeal and explain the situation, letting them know you're a frequent train traveller and you didn't think it'd be a problem, but in future in the event such a situation happens again you'll make sure you have a valid ticket before boarding and hope they'll be understanding. 

Agreed.

In the Northern Rail area it was until recently usual to pay on the train. Evidently NR are economising on train guards and as a result being more hard line than in the past on people who board before buying a ticket.

Furthermore, there is a big difference between railway staff (such as the conductors you mention who have helpfully sold tickets), and the revenue protection thugs who are paid on commission and have no interest in goodwill.