Northern Rail Penalty Fare

neilprocter

hi,

Sorry if this has been posted before.

my wife and I were hit with a penalty fare last Friday and want to know what people think (please be polite).

I caught a train form Preston to Manchester. We didn't buy tickets using the app as we wanted advice on which ticket to buy/if there was any weekend deals to be had. 

The ticket office was closed in Preston, the ticket machines were very busy and our train was due any minute. We jumped on the train hoping to buy a ticket from the conductor but they didn't come and check tickets. We jumped off at Manchester Oxford Road and asked the guys on the platform about buying a ticket as we hadn't had chance on the station or on the train. They almost pinned us to the wall and issued us both with a penalty fare. I tried to explain what had happened but they weren't having any of it. They were awful and arrogant. They didn't even tell my wife why she was being issued a penalty. 

I want to appeal it as it seems a little unfair as its not like we didnt try to get a ticket or we tried to evade a fare. I know technically we travelled without a ticket but they are supposed to take 'mitigating circumstances' into account. 

Any thoughts?

mjm3346

It's up to you to allow enough (reasonable) time to buy a ticket, doesn't sound like you were in a queue for any time - if the ticket machines did not take your payment method that would be something else

Dazed_and_C0nfused

Any thoughts?

Buy a ticket like everyone else.

macman

What was 'technical' about you travelling without tickets?

onashoestring

“If you are travelling from a station that has the facility to purchase tickets it is a legal requirement that a ticket is purchased prior to travel. Railway Byelaw 18(1).”

14. Penalty Fares Notice 

A Penalty Fare Notice may be issued if a passenger gets on a train without a ticket or Promise to Pay Notice at a station where ticket buying facilities are available.”

https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/legal/fines-penalties

GingerTim

Not a leg to stand on, I'm afraid - ticket machines were available, no matter how busy they were.

You could try https://www.railforums.co.uk/forums/disputes-prosecutions.152/, but you will get the same advice.

[Deleted User]

The ticket apps show you most (if not all) the options of travel from A-B with different prices, if you knew you were going to travel, it was your choice not to research it until the day - offers do not appear just at the last second - and your circumstances that meant you arrived at the station without time to get a ticket (the machines typically don't offer anything different to apps anyway) and got on the train without a ticket. The days of going to a conductor to buy tickets are long gone. What if the conductor had arrived and fined you on the train?

Bradden

Just looking at this from another persepctive. I noticed the ticket office was closed. If it should have been open at the time and it should have been then  you may have some room to argue.

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/PRP/details.html


Opening hours

Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday 06:00 - 19:10
Sunday 09:10 - 16:45


Should the office have been open at the time you wanted to buy a ticket?

daveyjp

You must buy at the first opportunity.  That was the app or the ticket machine.

If you want to appeal pay the penalty then appeal, arguing the ticket office situation if it should have been open, or research the tickets now and find one which can only be purchased at a ticket office or guard as apps and machines don't sell all types, especially if you want a ranger or local transport authority tickets.

I was in Scotland a few weeks ago, tried to buy tickets using the in station machine, but it wouldn't allow me to buy using a 16-17 Railcard to save 50% off one of the tickets.

The counter was open so I asked why and we were sold a family day return, which has a third off all our tickets.  This ticket type isn't available from machines and I had no knowledge of it as an option.

GingerTim

Bradden said:

Just looking at this from another persepctive. I noticed the ticket office was closed. If it should have been open at the time and it should have been then  you may have some room to argue.

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/PRP/details.html


Opening hours

Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday 06:00 - 19:10
Sunday 09:10 - 16:45


Should the office have been open at the time you wanted to buy a ticket?

If a ticket machine was available and working then it doesn't matter if the ticket office was closed.

If the office was closed and the machine was broken, then you'd have room to argue.

outtatune

You're lucky the ticket inspectors believed you and only issued a penalty fare. They could easily have reported you for prosecution.