Omg 18%

sevenhills

Expotter said:

Most of the young(ish) single people I know of have to live in shared accommodation, even though they work full time and don't get any benefits or credits. Do you really think that's okay?

I did say that older people should be richer and have saved/worked to buy their own home or just amassed wealth.

Grumpy_chap

Expotter said:

And what exactly is a person who's already cut all luxuries, changed supermarkets, etc. living in rented accommodation supposed to do then? Especially if they're working full time on a £20k something wage with zero entitlement to any benefit?  Surely, it comes a point when no amount of words of wisdom are of any help.

When you consider that the main drivers of inflation are energy, food and fuel, it means highest inflation affects the poorest the most as these are all necessities. And the working poor are probably on a worse situation than those on benefits, because they're the most likely to be helped. 18% plus inflation is just not financially survivable for some and government must intervene.

There are many that have lived through this level of inflation and interest rates before.  Very few that saw the same drivers and root causes of the inflation and interest rates.  It really is hard to see how the Government will intervene here in a way that works - properly works - all the solutions I have seen seem to have substantial flaws.  I am clever enough to see the flaws, but not clever enough to suggest a solution.

Much of the way this is reported is misleading - all the reference to the typical price cap at £3.5k.  That is not a relevant figure for most.  The unit cost of energy is very relevant.

As for those that already cut all luxuries.  They are finding it very hard but, again, the media are happy to report cases without proper scrutiny.  There is a piece today about someone who can't afford the oven so only had ready meals in the microwave.  I understand that sentiment, but nothing in the journalistic article seems to have mentioned the high cost of ready meals...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-62631659
Surely, it would have been helpful to the individual and others in a similar position for the journalist to suggest lower cost diets that are still healthy and nutritious and can be consumed cold or with efficient heating.

Finally, it was not long ago that the green lobby were saying cheap energy was the work of Mordor and energy needed to be much more expensive to save the planet.  Where are they today?  Pleading for bigger handouts to pay for energy.

NedS

I love this site:

https://grid.iamkate.com/

I think it really highlights just how totally dependent we are on gas for generating our electricity, especially on days where the wind doesn't blow and the sun ain't shining. In the past day, only 13% of our electricity has come from renewables - a particularly poor day, but it goes to show just how far we have to go and the scale of the investment required to remove our dependency on gas.

2nd_time_buyer

Grumpy_chap said:

Finally, it was not long ago that the green lobby were saying cheap energy was the work of Mordor and energy needed to be much more expensive to save the planet.  Where are they today?  Pleading for bigger handouts to pay for energy.

Solar, onshore wind and offshore wind, were all cheaper to deploy than all fossil fuels even before the energy crisis, the gulf has only widened since.  

This government seems to be acting very un-Conservatively by not allowing market forces to dictate. Effectively they are standing in the way of allowing farmers and landowners to make big profits from building solar and wind farms.

NedS

2nd_time_buyer said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Finally, it was not long ago that the green lobby were saying cheap energy was the work of Mordor and energy needed to be much more expensive to save the planet.  Where are they today?  Pleading for bigger handouts to pay for energy.

Solar, onshore wind and offshore wind, were all cheaper to deploy than all fossil fuels even before last year.  

This government seems to be acting very un-Conservatively by not allowing market forces to dictate. Effectively they are standing in the way of allowing farmers and landowners to make big profits from building solar and wind farms.

If it were such a money spinner, why are the government having to subsidise renewables (wind farms, solar farms) with ROCs, FiTs, CfDs etc? Something doesn't add up?
And lets not forget, solar and wind assets were losing money hand over fist during 2020/21 - they have only starting increasing their profits now as energy prices and inflation have risen. When these turn over, prices and valuations will again drop.

ComicGeek

Grumpy_chap said:

Finally, it was not long ago that the green lobby were saying cheap energy was the work of Mordor and energy needed to be much more expensive to save the planet.  Where are they today?  Pleading for bigger handouts to pay for energy.

I'm not sure how the failure of Government energy policies over the last few decades is the fault of the green lobby. It's not strange to have both lobbied for greater resources for insulation/boiler replacements etc over the years, and also want to financially support the most vulnerable in the short term now.

Yes, it is only when energy becomes expensive that people start wanting to reduce usage. People in general don't care about environmental issues or the future - they do care about not being able to afford their normal luxuries. Businesses also haven't bothered to make simple changes historically because it was only a small proportion of their overheads.

Energy needs to remain expensive, but equally there needs to be properly run initiatives to install insulation etc to help those who can't afford to fund it themselves, or are in rented accommodation. The fact that this is happening at the exact time there is a labour shortage in the industry, supply chain issues and high inflation doesn't help.

Expotter

pensionpawn said:

Expotter said:

And what exactly is a person who's already cut all luxuries, changed supermarkets, etc. living in rented accommodation supposed to do then? Especially if they're working full time on a £20k something wage with zero entitlement to any benefit?  Surely, it comes a point when no amount of words of wisdom are of any help.

When you consider that the main drivers of inflation are energy, food and fuel, it means highest inflation affects the poorest the most as these are all necessities. And the working poor are probably on a worse situation than those on benefits, because they're the most likely to be helped. 18% plus inflation is just not financially survivable for some and government must intervene.

I sympathise, I really do. I am now in the twilight of my working career and am fortunate enough to have accumulated a good (though nothing like the size of some of the pots discussed on this forum) size pension pot as fiscal insurance. I'm sure you'll manage that too, however difficult it seems now. However it wasn't always that easy for us. We bought our first house in 1989 which unbeknownst to us at the time was just before the property crash. We sold in 1996 losing our deposit and owing on the (interest only) mortgage. When we bought inflation was ~5% rising to around 8.5% in 1992 before falling to ~2.5% by the time we sold. Over the same period the BoE base rate rose from 13.75% (yes, almost 8 times what they are now!) to 14.9% until falling to 5.7% in 1996. My point being I survived 30 years ago and most will survive this crisis, even though it will be very, very tough. Bear in mind though that the intervention that you hope / expect the government to make will come out of current, or future, tax rises. The government doesn't make money.

I am sorry if I gave the wrong impression (even though I'm also affected by it), but I'm not speaking for myself here, rather for the likes of my son, late 20s to 30 somethings (or older) who have nowhere to turn to. He still lives with us and like many of his friends and colleagues has no chance of ever buying a property unless we give him substantial help, at least not on his own anyway.

I know exactly what it was like before, as I also lived through it, my first property was bought on a 2 year fixed mortgage at the bargain rate of 10.5%. Yes, we managed to get through it, but at least the country didn't seem to be falling apart at the seams then. You could still rely on the NHS if you were ill, crime wasn't running rampant, services still functioned and I honestly don't remember feeling the sense of despair we have these days. The government seems to have taken complete leave of absence while indulging in this self serving farce of a leader election. I am often reminded of Nero fiddling while Rome burned.

Don't get me wrong either, I don't think endless handouts are the answer, in fact the opposite, I believe the welfare system is actually responsible for a lot of the issues we have today; not to mention the astronomical amounts wasted on failed policies. 
If only we could actually get some well thought out policies for once and the will to tackle the big issues, like the NHS or social care in an intelligent manner, rather than a means to score political points. Same with the energy market, what's the point of a privatised system when there's zero competition, you end up with the worst of both worlds, privatising all the profits while socializing all losses. What's the point of a cap if it keeps changing regularly?
 Anyway, I'm not exactly holding out for any sensible solutions, regardless of the colour of the party in government.

[Deleted User]

2nd_time_buyer said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Finally, it was not long ago that the green lobby were saying cheap energy was the work of Mordor and energy needed to be much more expensive to save the planet.  Where are they today?  Pleading for bigger handouts to pay for energy.

Solar, onshore wind and offshore wind, were all cheaper to deploy than all fossil fuels even before the energy crisis, the gulf has only widened since.  

This government seems to be acting very un-Conservatively by not allowing market forces to dictate. Effectively they are standing in the way of allowing farmers and landowners to make big profits from building solar and wind farms.

“Big profits” result from government subsidies. Like this: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/13/uk-to-offer-265m-in-subsidies-for-renewable-energy-developers

There is a limit on how much solar and wind power a grid can have and remain stable.  This is because weather varies from time to time and not necessarily in alignment with demand for electricity. The bulk of power has to come from base load generation, eg fossil, nuclear or hydro.

Where the government did go wrong (including the previous Labour government) was in poor planning for storage facilities, lack of guts to authorize nuclear and refusing to tackle some of the structural energy market problems in the UK.

Albermarle

 the media are happy to report cases without proper scrutiny.  There is a piece today about someone who can't afford the oven so only had ready meals in the microwave.  I understand that sentiment, but nothing in the journalistic article seems to have mentioned the high cost of ready meals...

I noticed that as well. The person involved also said she sat in the dark as she could not afford to turn a light on or the TV.

I am sure a lot of people are struggling ( nothing really new there ) but these stories just do not ring true, and there must be some significant facts missing.

[Deleted User]

sevenhills said:

Deleted_User said:

Perhaps, but one did have to be very stupid to support Labour in 2017 and 2019. Regardless of education.

Since Labour did not get elected, we would not know the outcome if they did. Tony Blair was a successful PM, as can be evidenced from his long service. Our last two PMs have been very poor, rejected after a short time by their own colleagues.

Tony Blair did not stand for election in either 2017 or 2019.  The Labour PM candidate who did had a really long track record of atrocious, economically illiterate, vile and racist policies.  Thankfully, most voters did know the outcome of electing that to No.10.