Gladstones on behalf of UKCPML

Sam_was_here

Dear Experts,

I am creating this thread for a new LBC I have received from Gladstones Solicitors, below are the details: 

Solicitors - Gladstones Solicitors

Parking Firm – UK Car Park Management Limited

LBC Date  - 10th Aug 2022

Date of Charge – 28th July 2019

Place : Burket Close Southall UB2 5NT 

The above charge is the second LBC from Gladstones in the last few weeks ( they have sent me another LBC for Private Parking Solutions London LTD which is under progress here: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6376943/private-parking-solutions-london-ltd/p1

 

This LBC states : 

We wrote to you on 2 August 2022 at an alternate address. We have since carried out an UK Search

trace, which has produced a new address for you.

We act on behalf of the above Client and are instructed to commence legal proceedings against you

to recover unpaid parking charge notices) as detailed in the attached schedule (full details of them

having been sent to you by our Client already), if the Amount Due/ Debt remains unpaid or a valid

reason for non-payment is not provided.

The Amount Due/ Debt includes £70.00 claimed by our Client for the time/resources spent facilitating

the recovery of the unpaid parking charge notice(s) pursuant to its ATA's Code of Practice and the

Terms and Conditions of the Contract, which was entered into upon the driver of the vehicle entering

the Relevant Land. The amount is a pre-determined and nominal contribution to our Client's losses etc…..

Parking Event Details: This was over 3 years ago but my recollection of the event is that I had parked on the side of the road for a few minutes to pick up my son from his evening class. I don’t recall seeing any sign boards there. I started receiving letters soon after on my home address which was different to the one we are currently on, which I ignored.

We moved to the new address a few months later in 2019, and a debt recovery letter was then sent to my current address 2 years later, around Sept 2021.

This LBC follows another LBC that Gladstones sent for a different Parking Firm just a few weeks back, so it would seem they have dug up this one to pursue two different incidents simultaneously.

 Shall I send the SAR to the parking firm and a letter refuting this claim to Gladstones as per the process please? And given that they have sent a letter on an old address before this one, I will need to categorically state to Gladstones that my current address is the address they should use? 

Many thanks for your guidance again!

Fruitcake

Send a rectification notice to the DPO of both PPCs instructing them to erase your old data and replace it with your new address for service, and to inform all their agents of the same. Include non-photo proof of ID with the request, and ensure you use the word I have highlighted. Send a copy to the solicitors as well.

Also send an SAR to the DPO of the PPC as per the advice in the NEWBIES.

If you want more time, tell the solicitors that whilst you deny the debt, you are seeking debt advice and require the case to be put on hold for 30 days as per court pre-action protocol.

Plan A is always to complain to the landowner and your MP.
Get photos of the site and signage. Use Google Streetview to see if there are any historic images that will be useful to you.

Where did the alleged event occur? It may have cropped up here before.

Note that dropping off/picking up is not parking, so you should look up the transcript for the Jopson vs Homeguard case. This was heard in the appeal court so is persuasive on the lower courts.

Sam_was_here

Fruitcake said:

Send a rectification notice to the DPO of both PPCs instructing them to erase your old data and replace it with your new address for service, and to inform all their agents of the same. Include non-photo proof of ID with the request, and ensure you use the word I have highlighted. Send a copy to the solicitors as well.

Also send an SAR to the DPO of the PPC as per the advice in the NEWBIES.

If you want more time, tell the solicitors that whilst you deny the debt, you are seeking debt advice and require the case to be put on hold for 30 days as per court pre-action protocol.

Plan A is always to complain to the landowner and your MP.
Get photos of the site and signage. Use Google Streetview to see if there are any historic images that will be useful to you.

Where did the alleged event occur? It may have cropped up here before.

Note that dropping off/picking up is not parking, so you should look up the transcript for the Jopson vs Homeguard case. This was heard in the appeal court so is persuasive on the lower courts.

Many thanks Fruitcake.
I have now:
1. Sent a SAR to the PPC
2. Sent a Data Rectification notice to PPC and CC'd Gladstones on it
3.  Sent an email to Gladstones refuting the debt claim and advising them to wait 30 days, also mentioned that their client has been sent a SAR.

The place where this happened is : Burket Close Southall UB2 5NT 
Its a long street leading up to a residential place, and I had stopped where the red cross is for a few minutes. There were no conspicuous signs back then, but I can see they have since put up a 'Private Road' sign, but google maps isnt allowing a closer look at it.

Sam_was_here

Dear Experts,
Hope you are well. Earlier today I received a response to my SAR (sent on 23rd Aug 22). 
One of the pictures is of the sign apparently that was near the spot. The resolution is not clear enough so I am not sure if you are able to provide any guidance on this.



Also, the first photograph they have sent has a timestamp of 13:16:30 and the last photograph (which is the sign photograph above) has a timestamp of 13:22:36, so these pictures were clicked 6 minutes and 6 seconds apart. However,  the duration as stated in their system is 19 minutes (as per the below screenshots of their system shared by them in the SAR response). As you can see the Incident and Observation times in this screenshot do not  correspond with the timestamps on the pictures. From what I recall I (amongst other parents who were there to pick up their children) had parked there for circa 10 mins to pick up my 10 year old child from a nearby school, their photographs are consistent with my memory but their system alleges 19 mins, is it a case where it's my word against theirs wrt to the duration? And JOPSON v HOME GUARD SERVICES is a relevant defence in these circumstances as I was merely there to pick my child and had to leave my car for a matter of few minutes which as per their photographs is well within the grace period?

Coupon-mad

I don't think Jopson applies as you didn't have a right to park there like a resident does.

By the way, to help with future pick ups:

When picking up a child (or dropping off) did you know you are allowed to use double or single yellow lines on street?  That - and loading/unloading - is the 'exempt activity' that kerbside yellow lines are actually for (sorry if preaching to the converted and you already know this).  Many drivers wrongly think that double yellows mean 'no stopping' which isn't true.  Stay on street and never seek out private car parks. Avoid anywhere with signs like that.

That sign is almost unreadable but looks like a 'forbidding' sign (no parking contract offered) as per:
http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/04/pcm-uk-signage-does-not-create-contract.html?m=1

Sam_was_here

Coupon-mad said:

I don't think Jopson applies as you didn't have a right to park there like a resident does.

By the way, to help with future pick ups:

When picking up a child (or dropping off) did you know you are allowed to use double or single yellow lines on street?  That - and loading/unloading - is the 'exempt activity' that kerbside yellow lines are actually for (sorry if preaching to the converted and you already know this).  Many drivers wrongly think that double yellows mean 'no stopping' which isn't true.  Stay on street and never seek out private car parks. Avoid anywhere with signs like that.

That sign is almost unreadable but looks like a 'forbidding' sign (no parking contract offered) as per:
http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/04/pcm-uk-signage-does-not-create-contract.html?m=1

Many thanks Coupon-mad, this is actually very helpful. I did not know about these exemptions - so, well noted with thanks!
I am not entirely sure where exactly this sign was on that road and I certainly didn't ignore it deliberately. I will try to get clearer images of this sign and go through the link you noted above. Thanks once again!

Not_A_Hope

The photo of the sign the PPC sent helps your case. If this was the only sign and it was unreadable you cannot of entered into a contract which is what they base their scam claim on. For a contract to be formed there needs to be an offer, consideration and acceptance.

If there was no offer of parking and no clear and obvious signs for you to consider you could not have accepted by conduct their contract. I think most judges would dismiss this claim if they are daft enough to issue a county court claim.

patient_dream

The Amount Due/ Debt includes £70.00 claimed by our Client for the time/resources spent facilitating the recovery of the unpaid parking charge notice(s) pursuant to its ATA's Code of Practice

The amount is a pre-determined and nominal contribution to our Client's losses etc…..

Gladstones really do come out with such corkers

The fake £70 is simply a scam invented by the BPA (ATA) and copied by the IPC (ATA) ... And Gladstones invented the IPC/IAS scam

The pre-determined amount is only pre-determined by money scammers AND against the Supreme Court who ruled that the price of the parking ticket covered the costs of operating the scheme

As usual Gladstones are spouting rubbish and the court judges know it

Gladstones are trying to mug you and the court