Energy expenditure forecast and the State Pension

sienew

missile said:

Farway said:

I think your post & forecast demonstrates why the whole energy market & how to pay bills is going to explode with who knows what results & consequences

It's not just pensioners, millions of lower paid & those on benefits will also be hard hit and just not able to pay

I have no idea what the solution is, and I suspect no one else has either, glib shouts for nationalising, fracking etc are not going to resolve what is an international problem and lack of longer term planning in past decades

In previous times the strong would simply invade & take the supplies but in a nuclear world that is not a good idea, if it ever was

Price increases are much higher in UK than any other country in Europe. Brexit the gift that keeps on giving

This comments shows you clearly don't understand the energy market at all. Brexit has zero impact on energy bills and theoretically (if the govt wanted) even allows us to do more to reduce them than if we were in the EU.

AlanP_2

sienew said:

missile said:

Farway said:

I think your post & forecast demonstrates why the whole energy market & how to pay bills is going to explode with who knows what results & consequences

It's not just pensioners, millions of lower paid & those on benefits will also be hard hit and just not able to pay

I have no idea what the solution is, and I suspect no one else has either, glib shouts for nationalising, fracking etc are not going to resolve what is an international problem and lack of longer term planning in past decades

In previous times the strong would simply invade & take the supplies but in a nuclear world that is not a good idea, if it ever was

Price increases are much higher in UK than any other country in Europe. Brexit the gift that keeps on giving

This comments shows you clearly don't understand the energy market at all. Brexit has zero impact on energy bills and theoretically (if the govt wanted) even allows us to do more to reduce them than if we were in the EU.

So why are the rises lower in the EU then?

sienew

AlanP_2 said:

sienew said:

missile said:

Farway said:

I think your post & forecast demonstrates why the whole energy market & how to pay bills is going to explode with who knows what results & consequences

It's not just pensioners, millions of lower paid & those on benefits will also be hard hit and just not able to pay

I have no idea what the solution is, and I suspect no one else has either, glib shouts for nationalising, fracking etc are not going to resolve what is an international problem and lack of longer term planning in past decades

In previous times the strong would simply invade & take the supplies but in a nuclear world that is not a good idea, if it ever was

Price increases are much higher in UK than any other country in Europe. Brexit the gift that keeps on giving

This comments shows you clearly don't understand the energy market at all. Brexit has zero impact on energy bills and theoretically (if the govt wanted) even allows us to do more to reduce them than if we were in the EU.

So why are the rises lower in the EU then?

Depends on which country you mean as all have different energy strategies and support package they have implemented. France for example have had a limited rise. Their bills started at a higher price than ours but have a lot of nuclear (which they have been working on for 30 years, not related to Brexit) which has helped them a little but they still pay the same wholesale rate as we do for much of their energy. They have limited the increase on individuals by nationalising the energy supplier and partial producer (EDF) and bailing them out costing tens of billions or more. France are borrowing the money to keep bills low.

We could do exactly the same, with Brexit, or without. It's just that generally using debt to pay day to day energy bills is incredibly unpopular in the UK (see the previous £200 loan-not-loan scheme).

How exactly do you suggest being in the EU would make our gas prices cheaper?

trevjl

Sterlingtimes said:

I do live in a family house with four adults. I currently pay £260 a month for gas and electricity. My account balance is about £zero.

The Octopus crystal ball tool calculates that my monthly direct debit will increase from £260 to £515.94, i.e. an increase of 98.84%.

My State Pension amounts to £11,414 annually, including the cost of living allowance. My wife is far too young to receive her State Pension.

My energy will then cost £6,191 / £11,414 = 54% of my State Pension.

Thank goodness that I have other pensions.

In my experience Octopus talk nonsense with their forecasts. Every 6 months or so they try to tell me my DD has to go up to match my "target balance" and every 6 months I ask them why we go through this charade and my DD will not be increased. This was before the current energy rises. I tell them that Asda do not charge me for next weeks shopping this week and therfore I will not pay for next months usage now. Currently I am a little in credit even though I refused their huge DD increase.

Albermarle

trevjl said:

Sterlingtimes said:

I do live in a family house with four adults. I currently pay £260 a month for gas and electricity. My account balance is about £zero.

The Octopus crystal ball tool calculates that my monthly direct debit will increase from £260 to £515.94, i.e. an increase of 98.84%.

My State Pension amounts to £11,414 annually, including the cost of living allowance. My wife is far too young to receive her State Pension.

My energy will then cost £6,191 / £11,414 = 54% of my State Pension.

Thank goodness that I have other pensions.

In my experience Octopus talk nonsense with their forecasts. Every 6 months or so they try to tell me my DD has to go up to match my "target balance" and every 6 months I ask them why we go through this charade and my DD will not be increased. This was before the current energy rises. I tell them that Asda do not charge me for next weeks shopping this week and therfore I will not pay for next months usage now. Currently I am a little in credit even though I refused their huge DD increase.

Many people prefer to build up credit during the Summer months. Although it helps Octopus cash flow, it assists some customers to budget as well, especially at the moment. In any case all suppliers do pretty much the same, and at least it is easy with Octopus just to request not to do it this way.

PennyForThem_2

Hope you give them a meter reading monthly or are on a working smart meter, trevjl!

trevjl

PennyForThem_2 said:

Hope you give them a meter reading monthly or are on a working smart meter, trevjl!

Yes do readings every month, wont entertain a smart meter. I dont need a meter to tell me my usage, I am an electrical guy, so quite capable of working it out in my head myself what things use

arnoldy

The UK is very dependent on Gas electricity generation, and for domestic heating - "the dash for gas". Largely because it was cheap (North Sea), seen as more green, and gas (turbine) power stations were relatively cheap and quick to build.

However gas prices have increased up to 10 times! The price of gas is determined by the National Balancing Point (NBP) which effectively is the blended European/UK rate - we are all connected hence this summer gas has been flowing out of UK to fill European storage. Hopefully they will not play silly buggers and let the gas flow back if required.

The scandal, the deceit, is that the price of electricity is set by the gas generation cost. Wind, Solar, Nuclear, Wood pellet, Hydro (that pretty much cost the same to generate this year as last) are absolutely coining it in.

On top of that we pay £400 green and social levies despite the price of gas being so high apparent they need more subsidies. Oh, and with the increase in renewables the grid is now becoming unstable as the massive phase-frequency stabilisation of massive steam turbine inertias is rapidly declining with the closure of coal and nuclear power plants.

Its a real mess, a cats cradle of OFGEM incompetence, green washing, and lack of political oversight. If you want to despair have a look at the OFGEM board - you are more likely to find a career quango person - degree in public policy studies from UEA or similar - than someone with deep Engineering, Scientific, and Industrial heft. Worrying when they are supposed to be keeping the lights on.

missile

sienew said:

missile said:

Farway said:

I think your post & forecast demonstrates why the whole energy market & how to pay bills is going to explode with who knows what results & consequences

It's not just pensioners, millions of lower paid & those on benefits will also be hard hit and just not able to pay

I have no idea what the solution is, and I suspect no one else has either, glib shouts for nationalising, fracking etc are not going to resolve what is an international problem and lack of longer term planning in past decades

In previous times the strong would simply invade & take the supplies but in a nuclear world that is not a good idea, if it ever was

Price increases are much higher in UK than any other country in Europe. Brexit the gift that keeps on giving

This comments shows you clearly don't understand the energy market at all. Brexit has zero impact on energy bills and theoretically (if the govt wanted) even allows us to do more to reduce them than if we were in the EU.

Clearly you believe the government spin and don't realise UK energy costs are increasing far more than in Europe.
Clearly you have no sense of humour, the Brexit comment was a tongue in cheek.
My energy is supplied by EDF, wholly owned by the French government. France has committed to capping an increase in regulated electricity costs at 4% until the end of the year. 

QrizB

arnoldy said:

The scandal, the deceit, is that the price of electricity is set by the gas generation cost. Wind, Solar, Nuclear, Wood pellet, Hydro (that pretty much cost the same to generate this year as last) are absolutely coining it in.

This statement isn't really true. The renewables funded by FITs and CfDs are only being paid their contracted rates (see this blog for a discussion of how the CfD scheme works).

Yes, independently-funded generators are making more money - but two years ago when prices were low they were selling at a loss. That's the risk investors take.

On top of that we pay £400 green and social levies despite the price of gas being so high apparent they need more subsidies.

This bit insn't true either (the entire "policy costs" component of the cap is is £153/yr, not £400) plus the social part funds the Warm Home Discount and ECO scheme for low-income households, who need it more than ever now.

I get the feeling you're not especially interested in facts.