Wrong Power of Attorney for house sale

lisyloo

Spiderroo said:

user1977 said:

Spiderroo said:

Beyond this, is there anyone you can flag problems like this to? I feel quite uneasy it’s got this far and the person at the top had no legal right to sell a vulnerable person’s property. I’m not saying they individually are dodgy but I’m surprised there’s no safeguards until it reaches the bit just before everybody exchanges. 

Why do you want to "flag" it to anyone? It sounds like simply a c0ck-up. The safeguards are that the property can't actually be sold - that seems to be working fine.

I think it’s the idea of someone with no relevant permissions inviting people into their home to consider buying it and then engaging solicitors which cost money at the incapacitated person’s expense. 

You’re right. Their estate agent should check they have the right to sell. Checking documents not just taking their word for it (as they could be innocently mistaken).
however as you say it’s harder in a chain.

sorry rather than remarket I’d look for something else assuming you don’t want to wait.

if you have free legal cover on your home insurance it might be worth a call to see if anyone is liable. The issue being that the EA who made the mistake probably has no liability towards you due to the chain.

lisyloo

Spiderroo said:

TTM said:

I’m really sorry to hear this. 

Our purchase nearly fell apart a few weeks back due to a power of attorney issue.  Very fortunately for everyone involved a doctor declared the individual had capacity to sign and everything is back on track, but it nearly stopped the sale in it’s tracks. 

When we were first told about the problem, which was flagged by our solicitor, we were incredulous that the vendor’s solicitor had failed to pick up this small detail nearly five months into the process.

Thank you, it gives me a bit of hope to hear we’re not the only ones to find themselves in this mad situation and your solution didn’t take 9 months! We don’t know exactly how much capacity they have, just that they’re not very well and need a lot of care and support. 

It sounds very much as if they have lost the capacity to make decisions.
someone can be physically ill but can agree for others to sell their home if they have the mental capacity.
the problem when someone loses capacity  is that you cannot then do a power of attorney as they don’t have the ability to agree, the courts have to agree with evidence from medical professionals and it takes time to process.

it is possible of course that they became ill during the process.

GDB2222

Just to clarify, OP, were you looking for compensation? 

Have you started looking around for a new purchase, yet?

user1977

lisyloo said:

Spiderroo said:

user1977 said:

Spiderroo said:

Beyond this, is there anyone you can flag problems like this to? I feel quite uneasy it’s got this far and the person at the top had no legal right to sell a vulnerable person’s property. I’m not saying they individually are dodgy but I’m surprised there’s no safeguards until it reaches the bit just before everybody exchanges. 

Why do you want to "flag" it to anyone? It sounds like simply a c0ck-up. The safeguards are that the property can't actually be sold - that seems to be working fine.

I think it’s the idea of someone with no relevant permissions inviting people into their home to consider buying it and then engaging solicitors which cost money at the incapacitated person’s expense. 

You’re right. Their estate agent should check they have the right to sell. Checking documents not just taking their word for it (as they could be innocently mistaken).
however as you say it’s harder in a chain.

sorry rather than remarket I’d look for something else assuming you don’t want to wait.

if you have free legal cover on your home insurance it might be worth a call to see if anyone is liable. The issue being that the EA who made the mistake probably has no liability towards you due to the chain.

Nobody is going to be liable to the OP.

Yes, ideally the EA ought to check that their client has POA - and they may have done so, just missed the detail of what sort of POA they had.

I think the main problem is the system in England where the parties don't bring in lawyers until relatively late in proceedings, and then the due diligence is done at a glacial pace - so even fundamental stuff like this can take weeks/months to be spotted.

GDB2222

It must be incredibly upsetting for the OP. 5 months into the process, and it has fallen apart.

elsien

I think you have to presume they lack capacity to sell the house, as otherwise they’d be able to sign themselves. 

It doesn’t automatically follow that they lack capacity to make another LPA though, although there’s a fair chance that they might. 

I think that’s a question you need to pass back up the chain. Can the person make a new LPA (which would still take a couple of months) or are they looking at deputyship which will take an awful lot longer. 

KxMx

A new LPA would take an average of 20 weeks, if not a little longer at the moment.

DairyQueen

KxMx said:

A new LPA would take an average of 20 weeks, if not a little longer at the moment.

I can confirm this timescale. Even assuming that the forms can be prepared quickly (that stage alone took our family several weeks) OPG (Office of the Public Guardian) took 4.5 months from receiving parents' paperwork until the registered documents were returned.

We submitted the paperwork for our own LPAs in June last year and documents were returned in September so the lead time has extended. I suspect WFH has impacted the timescale as it has worsened since pandemic restrictions eased.

Hate to think how long Court of Protection cases are now taking.

Sorry OP but I agree with others. I would let this one go.

lisyloo

user1977 said:

lisyloo said:

Spiderroo said:

user1977 said:

Spiderroo said:

Beyond this, is there anyone you can flag problems like this to? I feel quite uneasy it’s got this far and the person at the top had no legal right to sell a vulnerable person’s property. I’m not saying they individually are dodgy but I’m surprised there’s no safeguards until it reaches the bit just before everybody exchanges. 

Why do you want to "flag" it to anyone? It sounds like simply a c0ck-up. The safeguards are that the property can't actually be sold - that seems to be working fine.

I think it’s the idea of someone with no relevant permissions inviting people into their home to consider buying it and then engaging solicitors which cost money at the incapacitated person’s expense. 

You’re right. Their estate agent should check they have the right to sell. Checking documents not just taking their word for it (as they could be innocently mistaken).
however as you say it’s harder in a chain.

sorry rather than remarket I’d look for something else assuming you don’t want to wait.

if you have free legal cover on your home insurance it might be worth a call to see if anyone is liable. The issue being that the EA who made the mistake probably has no liability towards you due to the chain.

Nobody is going to be liable to the OP.

Yes, ideally the EA ought to check that their client has POA - and they may have done so, just missed the detail of what sort of POA they had.

I think the main problem is the system in England where the parties don't bring in lawyers until relatively late in proceedings, and then the due diligence is done at a glacial pace - so even fundamental stuff like this can take weeks/months to be spotted.

I’m sure you are right but just for my curiosity can you explain why trying to sell something you aren’t entitled to sell isn’t fraud or misreprentation?

can I (for example) stitch up an ex i hate by trying to sell them a house I don’t own?
just playing devils advocate here
seems like carte Blanche to play havoc if there’s no liability for what you sell.

user1977

lisyloo said:

user1977 said:

lisyloo said:

Spiderroo said:

user1977 said:

Spiderroo said:

Beyond this, is there anyone you can flag problems like this to? I feel quite uneasy it’s got this far and the person at the top had no legal right to sell a vulnerable person’s property. I’m not saying they individually are dodgy but I’m surprised there’s no safeguards until it reaches the bit just before everybody exchanges. 

Why do you want to "flag" it to anyone? It sounds like simply a c0ck-up. The safeguards are that the property can't actually be sold - that seems to be working fine.

I think it’s the idea of someone with no relevant permissions inviting people into their home to consider buying it and then engaging solicitors which cost money at the incapacitated person’s expense. 

You’re right. Their estate agent should check they have the right to sell. Checking documents not just taking their word for it (as they could be innocently mistaken).
however as you say it’s harder in a chain.

sorry rather than remarket I’d look for something else assuming you don’t want to wait.

if you have free legal cover on your home insurance it might be worth a call to see if anyone is liable. The issue being that the EA who made the mistake probably has no liability towards you due to the chain.

Nobody is going to be liable to the OP.

Yes, ideally the EA ought to check that their client has POA - and they may have done so, just missed the detail of what sort of POA they had.

I think the main problem is the system in England where the parties don't bring in lawyers until relatively late in proceedings, and then the due diligence is done at a glacial pace - so even fundamental stuff like this can take weeks/months to be spotted.

I’m sure you are right but just for my curiosity can you explain why trying to sell something you aren’t entitled to sell isn’t fraud or misreprentation?

Do you mean as in criminal culpability? As with most crimes, you need criminal intent, and (as far as we know) the attorney here was simply mistaken about the powers that the POA actually granted them. It's no more "fraudulent" than a vendor who didn't realise they didn't have a title to all of their garden.

If you mean some sort of civil liability - for starters, this is about a transaction to which the OP isn't even a party, they just happen to be in the "chain". And I'm not convinced even the buyer in question would have a claim, again given the lack of intent.