Amazon and Ebay: How many returns is too many? Buyer abuse policy

soolin

tc1992 said:

soolin said:

Quote “As for feedback my ability to leave neutral or neg is gone, I will always leave positive feedback if everything works out, which is the vast majority of the time now.”

has eBay removed your ability to leave non positives and was this at the same time as getting the warning. Also before that were you leaving non positives?

I am primarily a seller on eBay but for the past 6 -8 weeks or so have been buying loads of items for a hobby project , several items a day , and nothing has been returned so far. On Amazon I am only a buyer , just had 3 items delivered by courier and I think I have had just one return in the past few months and that was for an item sold as brand new but which arrived opened and damaged. 

Yes the removal to leave non positive feedbacks happened as soon as i got the warning message.  Yes  I have left negative feedback in the past.  Between Amazon and Ebay i have probably made several thousand purchases, so it is impossible not to have negative experiences in all those transactions.

Well different experiences as I said.  I buy rare collectable CDs and vinyl and often pay a lot of money for them - physical condition is very important, and I know I am not the only one who struggles with badly described items.  Are you buying New or Used items mostly?  I think it is a lot more straight forward with New items, as less of a grading minefield which is to be had in the Used market, which is the vast majority of my purchases.

I think my return ratio on eBay, is probably between 1:15 and 1:20

On Amazon I am buying virtually all new items, on eBay it’s probably 50:50 as a lot of the item we are looking for are no longer in production. 

tc1992

mjm3346 said:

I hardly ever use e-bay so not surprisingly I have never needed to return anything  - I have over the years placed towards a thousand orders through Amazon (sometimes 10 + items per order) including significant numbers of (new) CDs and only had 1 where there was an issue with them, 1 CD from a box set of 6 was missing - refunded without needing to return - So that's 1 item refunded in 18 years 

Genuinely amazed by that.  Does physical condition matter to you, or are you happy as long as it plays ok?

tc1992

sienew said:

I think this is down to the items you are buying (cds). A return rate of 1:15 is very high. I just checked my eBay account and I have almost 2,000 feedback, mostly from buying (70% used items I'd guess) but a bit of selling as well. In that time I've never had someone request a return of an item I've sold and don't think I've done more than 1-2 returns for items that were missold to me. So it does go to show how high your return rate is compared to what might be considered normal for most other items.

It seems inevitable if you continue returning at that rate your account will quickly be closed. From what I hear both ebay and amazon are very good at finding if you have multiple accounts or open a new account after you have been banned so I'd be very careful if I were you.

I appreciate that info, I know if i lose my accounts i am probably done, and your suggestion to be very careful is correct.

tc1992

soolin said:

tc1992 said:

soolin said:

Quote “As for feedback my ability to leave neutral or neg is gone, I will always leave positive feedback if everything works out, which is the vast majority of the time now.”

has eBay removed your ability to leave non positives and was this at the same time as getting the warning. Also before that were you leaving non positives?

I am primarily a seller on eBay but for the past 6 -8 weeks or so have been buying loads of items for a hobby project , several items a day , and nothing has been returned so far. On Amazon I am only a buyer , just had 3 items delivered by courier and I think I have had just one return in the past few months and that was for an item sold as brand new but which arrived opened and damaged. 

Yes the removal to leave non positive feedbacks happened as soon as i got the warning message.  Yes  I have left negative feedback in the past.  Between Amazon and Ebay i have probably made several thousand purchases, so it is impossible not to have negative experiences in all those transactions.

Well different experiences as I said.  I buy rare collectable CDs and vinyl and often pay a lot of money for them - physical condition is very important, and I know I am not the only one who struggles with badly described items.  Are you buying New or Used items mostly?  I think it is a lot more straight forward with New items, as less of a grading minefield which is to be had in the Used market, which is the vast majority of my purchases.

I think my return ratio on eBay, is probably between 1:15 and 1:20

On Amazon I am buying virtually all new items, on eBay it’s probably 50:50 as a lot of the item we are looking for are no longer in production. 

right, thankyou.

mjm3346

tc1992 said:

mjm3346 said:

I hardly ever use e-bay so not surprisingly I have never needed to return anything  - I have over the years placed towards a thousand orders through Amazon (sometimes 10 + items per order) including significant numbers of (new) CDs and only had 1 where there was an issue with them, 1 CD from a box set of 6 was missing - refunded without needing to return - So that's 1 item refunded in 18 years 

Genuinely amazed by that.  Does physical condition matter to you, or are you happy as long as it plays ok?

All in perfect playing order including where appropriate booklets etc (apart from a handful where the cases were cracked but I had plenty of free spare cases so not worth bothering about)

tc1992

mjm3346 said:

tc1992 said:

mjm3346 said:

I hardly ever use e-bay so not surprisingly I have never needed to return anything  - I have over the years placed towards a thousand orders through Amazon (sometimes 10 + items per order) including significant numbers of (new) CDs and only had 1 where there was an issue with them, 1 CD from a box set of 6 was missing - refunded without needing to return - So that's 1 item refunded in 18 years 

Genuinely amazed by that.  Does physical condition matter to you, or are you happy as long as it plays ok?

All in perfect playing order including where appropriate booklets etc (apart from a handful where the cases were cracked but I had plenty of free spare cases so not worth bothering about)

ok MJM, i did not read your original message fully.  You are talking about New CDs, yes that is a different ball game from Used.  I very  rarely have problems with New.   Nowhere near problems i have with used CDs.   Main problem i had with New CDs were fakes, but that seems to be a lot better policed situation now from a few years ago, and even then it was very occasional. Also occasional damaged in transit, and boxset cases, unique cases can not be replaced by standard jewel case unfortunately.  It is nearly all Used I buy though.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

I see where you are coming from with this OP, MusicMagpie list everything as very good, on eBay this means the inserts and such should be undamaged and I'm buying to keep rather than just watch/listen to.

I've had a box set smashed to pieces because it was sent in a plastic mailer, they issued their own non-tracked (at the time) return label but eBay had to step in and refund as they didn't bother.

I've had discs with numbers written in permanent marker on the picture side, one item with a water damaged sleeve and another damaged again because of plastic mailers. 

I don't buy much from them but the buy 1 and get 40% off the second item does make their offers incredibly cheap. 

WorldofBooks seem OK so far, maybe they have higher standards but I tend to buy from private sellers who don't use stock photos. With saved searches set up and patience I can usually get what I want for around £3, although I'm not chasing any rare items for my collection.  

RFW

Amazon are fairly reasonable, so if you outlined each case and told them you considered it unfair they may be prepared to give more information, or overturn their decision if they did ban you. My guess is, though, that these will be small value purchases, if they're being sent by marketplace sellers then Amazon don't earn much out of them and they won't lose much seeing you go. All the same, while you can, if you can, itemise each return and the reason for it. At the very least you'd probably get some publicity out of it, the media likes a good Ebay or Amazon bashing story.

Incidentally it's not a new thing exclusive to online traders. A friend of a friend was banned from one of the major supermarkets for returning to much stuff. It was quite a while ago so I won't name them but it was a blanket ban across all their stores. Whether they could police it I don't know. It's certainly easier for Amazon and Ebay to do it.

tc1992

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

I see where you are coming from with this OP, MusicMagpie list everything as very good, on eBay this means the inserts and such should be undamaged and I'm buying to keep rather than just watch/listen to.

I've had a box set smashed to pieces because it was sent in a plastic mailer, they issued their own non-tracked (at the time) return label but eBay had to step in and refund as they didn't bother.

I've had discs with numbers written in permanent marker on the picture side, one item with a water damaged sleeve and another damaged again because of plastic mailers. 

I don't buy much from them but the buy 1 and get 40% off the second item does make their offers incredibly cheap. 

WorldofBooks seem OK so far, maybe they have higher standards but I tend to buy from private sellers who don't use stock photos. With saved searches set up and patience I can usually get what I want for around £3, although I'm not chasing any rare items for my collection.  

Thankyou, i appreciate that post TLIIMH.  I see you also spotted the Music Magpie "omni grade" of Very Good.  As you say every single one of their Used CDs is graded Very Good.  It's an abuse of the marketplace, they know it, and their Ebay and Amazon account managers know it. I'm kicking myself for persisting as I was aware of problems with too many returns, and I knew full well how they operate.

Like you I persisted as you can get some great prices, and I knew I could always return one of the many non Very Good ones.  Many problems getting refunds off them as well, like yourself, despite clear tracking info. 

WoB as far as i know grade nearly all as Good, so at least they are more realistic about the quality.

OMFG random graders, but will work with you for partial refund when not as described.

tc1992

RFW said:

Amazon are fairly reasonable, so if you outlined each case and told them you considered it unfair they may be prepared to give more information, or overturn their decision if they did ban you. My guess is, though, that these will be small value purchases, if they're being sent by marketplace sellers then Amazon don't earn much out of them and they won't lose much seeing you go. All the same, while you can, if you can, itemise each return and the reason for it. At the very least you'd probably get some publicity out of it, the media likes a good Ebay or Amazon bashing story.

Incidentally it's not a new thing exclusive to online traders. A friend of a friend was banned from one of the major supermarkets for returning to much stuff. It was quite a while ago so I won't name them but it was a blanket ban across all their stores. Whether they could police it I don't know. It's certainly easier for Amazon and Ebay to do it.

Yes, will be photographing any future returns from now on.  Yes i am complete irrelevant small fry to them

Interesting about your friend of a friend.  This does sound strange, without knowing the details, as it all New stuff that you literally can see before buying, so there should be only rare problems.  Never heard of that before.  Heard of people being banned from the bookies though haha.