Back-Billing Rule, No Gas bill from British Gas for 3 years

dave77238u38

Ofgem's back billing rules do not apply when customers have been wilfully obstructive or have displayed unreasonable behaviour.

If a customer is at fault, the supplier can pursue their debts with a back bill. The supplier needs to demonstrate the customer was unreasonable and provide evidence of it.

There are two distinct scenarios mentioned by Ofgem where the customer would be fault:

·        The customer behaves unlawfully by deliberately stealing energy.

·        The customer denies a supplier physical access to check the meter without good reason.

None of the above applies in my case 

Cardew

dave77238u38 said:

Cardew said:

dave77238u38 said:

Feelings don’t come in to it, morally yes, I should inform BS to their error. But legally there is nothing written into law or any statue compelling me to do so.

So, relying solely on the law/statue in place I personally believe that the Back-Billing Rule would apply putting all feeling and morals to the side.

I understand your argument, however IMO it is not a 'law/statute' but a code of conduct.

Should BG - or a Debt collection Agency(DCA)  - ever take the matter to court I suspect you would lose.

Updated June 2022

 

Ofgem's back billing rules do not apply when customers have been wilfully obstructive or have displayed unreasonable behaviour.

If a customer is at fault, the supplier can pursue their debts with a back bill. The supplier needs to demonstrate the customer was unreasonable and provide evidence of it.

There are two distinct scenarios mentioned by Ofgem where the customer would be fault:

·        The customer behaves unlawfully by deliberately stealing energy.

·        The customer denies a supplier physical access to check the meter without good reason.

Energy providers raised concerns during Ofgem's consultation into back billing that customers' failing to provide meter readings either deliberately or through their own inaction could make it difficult for suppliers to bill accurately.

Ofgem responded to this by saying their expected suppliers to work proactively with customers to obtain meter readings, with the backstop being that suppliers should engage with the customer to gain physical access to the property. If a customer obstructs that, they would be behaving unreasonably as per the guidance above.

 

I also am not considering any moral issue; however iIt still isn't a law/statute!

It is also not in dispute that the two scenarios in the quote do not apply in your case; but it doesn't state they were the only scenarios. Also you are clearly 'guilty' of 'failing to provide meter readings either deliberately or through their own inaction'

It really boils down to what a court would consider 'unreasonable behaviour'.

If you believe that it is 'reaonable behaviour' to not pay for gas for three years and rely on YOUR interpretation( or 'misinterpretation') of Ofgem's back-billing rules; IMO a court would not agree.

MWT

dave77238u38 said:

Ofgem's back billing rules do not apply when customers have been wilfully obstructive or have displayed unreasonable behaviour.

If a customer is at fault, the supplier can pursue their debts with a back bill. The supplier needs to demonstrate the customer was unreasonable and provide evidence of it.

There are two distinct scenarios mentioned by Ofgem where the customer would be fault:

·        The customer behaves unlawfully by deliberately stealing energy.

·        The customer denies a supplier physical access to check the meter without good reason.

None of the above applies in my case 

That is not an exhaustive list, merely examples.

You are not the customer these rules were designed to protect, you are fully aware that you owe them money and you are fully aware that there is a problem with your account, but you apparently intend to do nothing to resolve the problem...

So there isn't any way you can 100% depend on the back-billing rules to fully protect you as you wilfully continue to consume energy making no effort to pay for it.

Do let us know how this eventually ends though...

Mobtr

Usually when a PP meter is exchanged & set up as credit, the PP account is closed and a new account with a new account number is set up.

You say you logged onto your online account, but is that under your old PP number? . 

Due to the pandemic no one was coming round to read meters or to do much else so that will be why no meter reader has been round.  

Could be that a new account has been set up but you can’t see it on your online account - not sure how it works with BG, whether you can see all accounts under one log in or not- and bills have been produced, you just haven’t seen them or could be there’s been an issue in updating the account which has stopped the billing process. More likely the latter as I would have expected someone knocking on your door by now if you haven’t paid for 3 years. 

You need to ring them & try to speak to someone who’s experienced & knows what they’re doing to get it sorted out. Good luck & let us know how you get on. 

dave77238u38

This is why I posted this thread in the first place to get as many opinions as possible and focus on the sticking points.

So I think we all agree Obstruction is not relevant to my case
 

Unreasonable Behaviour seems to have people divided. 
 

@Cardew, You state "you are clearly 'guilty' of 'failing to provide meter readings either deliberately or through their own inaction"

Ofgem’s back billing rules will not apply. These include if:

• You have deliberately prevented accurate billing, for example by not supplying meter readings when requested or not allowing someone to take a meter reading for you.
• You have been using the gas or electricity supply but have not contacted the supplier to make a payment – this includes if you have moved home and not informed the new supplier that you are the new tenant or homeowner.
• You have wilfully avoided payment.

Deliberately preventing accurate billing (The key word is REQUESTED).

I have never refused to provide BS with a reading, they have never asked in the 13 years I've been a customer. Within the last 3-year BS have not requested a reading from me or sent a meter reader to the property.  
There is no legal requirement Witten into any law or statute to compel the consumer to voluntarily provide an energy supplier with meter reading (and most people don’t). 

Using gas or electricity supply but not contacted the supplier to make payment.
This section relates to a new tenant or homeowner that has not setup an account with the energy supplier.
As already mentioned in the thread I have had an account with BS for 13 years, they have all my details with the means to bill me.,
Again as mentioned within this thread I did contact BG when I noticed after few weeks after installation that the gas meter was not asking to be topped-up.                                              BS told me that the new Gas meter was installed and set-up as a standard meter (no longer pre-pay) I was asked, if I was ok with this and I would be receiving a gas bill every quarter. To which I agreed.

Wilfully avoided payment.

I cannot wilfully avoid payment, as there is no bill to pay. I have not refused or wilfully neglected to pay the bill as it does not exist at present.

MWT

dave77238u38 said:

Wilfully avoided payment.

I cannot wilfully avoid payment, as there is no bill to pay. I have not refused or wilfully neglected to pay the bill as it does not exist at present.

Seems like a pretty clear case of wilfully avoiding payment, you know you are using the energy, you know you should pay for it, you know there is a problem with your account but you are doing nothing to get it fixed...

You don't need a bill to know there is payment due...

Once again, these rules are not there to protect you from paying for what you know you should be paying for, they are there to prevent bill-shock, this is not that.

gj373

I had a similar issue many years ago...my gas meter "did not exist" so I couldn't be billed although gas flowed through it quite fine. I knew I was using gas, I knew I should be paying for it. Every month I spent an hour or so on the phone trying to get someone (anyone) to charge me for my gas and I kept a note of the efforts I made. Every month it was the same...."the meter doesn't exist".

To me, trying once a month to pay is reasonable, even perhaps make an effort once per quarter. Simply saying, "not my problem" and doing nothing is not reasonable and that sort of attitude just increases cost for everyone else.

dave77238u38

frugalmacdugal said:

Hi,

if you're happy with the back billing rule then why tell them now, after 3 years, if you wait until they contact you about it, if ever, you will still only have 12 months to pay.

exactly    

dave77238u38

Cardew said:

dave77238u38 said:

Feelings don’t come in to it, morally yes, I should inform BS to their error. But legally there is nothing written into law or any statue compelling me to do so.

So, relying solely on the law/statue in place I personally believe that the Back-Billing Rule would apply putting all feeling and morals to the side.

I understand your argument, however IMO it is not a 'law/statute' but a code of conduct.

Should BG - or a Debt collection Agency(DCA)  - ever take the matter to court I suspect you would lose.

It would never get that far,  

First of all I would negotiate with BS around The Back-Billing Rule and see if an agreement can be made.

Second, before any party steps a foot into a civil court, ether party can request mediation, which would likely happen in this case anyway, considering the circumstances  surrounding it  

deano2099

MWT said:

dave77238u38 said:

Wilfully avoided payment.

I cannot wilfully avoid payment, as there is no bill to pay. I have not refused or wilfully neglected to pay the bill as it does not exist at present.

Seems like a pretty clear case of wilfully avoiding payment, you know you are using the energy, you know you should pay for it, you know there is a problem with your account but you are doing nothing to get it fixed...

You don't need a bill to know there is payment due...

Once again, these rules are not there to protect you from paying for what you know you should be paying for, they are there to prevent bill-shock, this is not that.

Morally, the fact this thread exists demonstrates the OP knows he should be paying but isn't. But in reality, unless his posts are somehow traced back, it'd be down to BG to prove that he was doing this wilfully which would seem to be challenging. Especially as presumably he's paying BG for electric, so he's paying for energy, he could argue that he'd assumed he was paying for both. I know that's a mistake no-one here would make but it's not entirely unreasonable.

I think people are are under something of a misapprehension about why the OP is asking this. It sounds to me like he has absolutely no intention of notifying BG at any point about this. It also sounds like he's been saving an amount of money to cover his usage should BG come calling at any point. It feels like he's basically asking "should I hang on to all of it, or just twelve months' worth?"