Not self-employed - do I have to declare myself as such?

larryharvey

I am currently on Universal Credit. Today I was told I have to change my status from unemployed to self-employed or they will close my claim in 14 days.

I do not understand this. They told me that I was noted as self-employed on HMRC's database. This would have been from previous years when I was claiming UC. Not now though.

I started my new claim four months ago and marked myself as unemployed. I have since then been searching for paid employment, for the last four months, which my work coaches know about. I currently might well have a job coming up working for a hotel. Again, previous work coaches know about this opportunity.

Today a new work coach gave me the above ultimatum, even though I have told her that I am searching for paid employment and my two previous work coaches knew just as much. I asked why it took the Job Centre 4 months before suddenly telling me that I had to declare I am self-employed. she also told me that I need to declare that I have been self-employed since the first day that I started this new claim.

They basically said it is my fault - "you needed to tell HMRC this, and because you failed to so, it is not our fault. We overlooked it. But make the declaration or we will end your claim in 14 days."

I consider myself as unemployed. I had no idea I had to tell HMRC I was no longer self-employed, especially as I did not earn anything due to Covid for the six months before this current claim.

Finally, I do not really know why it is assumed I am self-employed anyway. I have no business, and therefore no accounts, indeed, my qualifications have mostly only seen me work for another entity and receive payment from them, albeit whilst abroad. I am a fitness instructor.

Any advice?

calcotti

larryharvey said:..I do not really know why it is assumed I am self-employed anyway. 

Because you are registered with HMRC as self employed.

You should have deregistered as self employed from HMRC.
https://www.gov.uk/stop-being-self-employed

Are you still doing self employed tax returns?

From a practical point, if in the short term you tell UC that you are self employed you will no longer have to prove that you are looking for work. You will have to report business income and expenditure (nil and nil in your case) to UC on the last day of each assessment period. Once you've sorted matters out with HMRC you can update UC.

Having said that I think UC are wrong. It doesn't follow that just because somebody carries out some self employment that they meet the test of gainful self employment.

tifo

larryharvey said:

I had no idea I had to tell HMRC I was no longer self-employed, especially as I did not earn anything due to Covid for the six months before this current claim.

Finally, I do not really know why it is assumed I am self-employed anyway.

HMRC would've still asked you to complete a self assessment for the years you're 'self employed' on their records, if you filled these in then you were self employed, if you didn't then you should have, and when they sent you a letter that you'll need to complete a self assessment form did you not think to tell them then?

Covid was 2 years ago.

maxmycardagain

Did you get the 5 SEISS grants for S/E and/or any ARG?

larryharvey

maxmycardagain said:

Did you get the 5 SEISS grants for S/E and/or any ARG?

Don't even know what they are. I did ask about furlough and was told I did not qualify as I am not classed as self-employed.

maxmycardagain

larryharvey said:

maxmycardagain said:

Did you get the 5 SEISS grants for S/E and/or any ARG?

Don't even know what they are. I did ask about furlough and was told I did not qualify as I am not classed as self-employed.

if you were registered SE you must have completed a tax return every year

your SEISS (all 5) were paid automatically based on taxable profits over past years

Furlough was for PAYE employees not S/E

poppy12345

maxmycardagain said:

larryharvey said:

maxmycardagain said:

Did you get the 5 SEISS grants for S/E and/or any ARG?

Don't even know what they are. I did ask about furlough and was told I did not qualify as I am not classed as self-employed.

your SEISS (all 5) were paid automatically based on taxable profits over past years

That's not correct, they weren't automatically paid. You had to claim them, if you were entitled to them.

maxmycardagain

poppy12345 said:

maxmycardagain said:

larryharvey said:

maxmycardagain said:

Did you get the 5 SEISS grants for S/E and/or any ARG?

Don't even know what they are. I did ask about furlough and was told I did not qualify as I am not classed as self-employed.

your SEISS (all 5) were paid automatically based on taxable profits over past years

That's not correct, they weren't automatically paid. You had to claim them, if you were entitled to them.

I stand corrected, the calculations were automatic

maxmycardagain

tifo said:

larryharvey said:

I had no idea I had to tell HMRC I was no longer self-employed, especially as I did not earn anything due to Covid for the six months before this current claim.

Finally, I do not really know why it is assumed I am self-employed anyway.

HMRC would've still asked you to complete a self assessment for the years you're 'self employed' on their records, if you filled these in then you were self employed, if you didn't then you should have, and when they sent you a letter that you'll need to complete a self assessment form did you not think to tell them then?

HMRC would have issued fines for late or missed returns

tifo

For someone whom was self employed (even if not now but still reg'd as such) the OP doesn't say what they did about their tax returns and/or letters from HMRC about these.

maxmycardagain

tifo said:

For someone whom was self employed (even if not now but still reg'd as such) the OP doesn't say what they did about their tax returns and/or letters from HMRC about these.

As ive said, HMRC would have fined him for late or missed SE tax returns

Slight whiff of something here?