Terrible service from a window company

djdaface

I am not happy with the service I am getting from a double glazing firm but not sure if I should just lump it or do something about it

I paid obscene amounts of money to the company last November (well over 30k) to double glaze half my house as the quote came with loads of service promises that met my needs, we had a baby due in June and wanted a hassle free job before she was born
All done with minimal disruption to the inside, scaffolding etc, completed by the end of March and a replica wood window to match as close as possible to what we already had
other quotes were up to 50% less but none could offer that kind of service


Once I paid the deposit I didnt hear from them again until the end of February when I was concerned and got in contact about how they were going to complete the job in time, I was told that it would be possible and it would be done by the end of May now, again I heard nothing for months and got back in contact at the end of April to be told it would be the end of June at the earliest so we booked the Job in for the 18th of July to give my partner time to adjust to motherhood but figured at least the disruption would be minimal

They turned up with the first window the wrong size, they broke the second window installing it and had to order a replacement of which they said would be two weeks as I am now the front of the queue
No scaffold went up, 6 people were carrying 2m+ windows through the house and windows 3-4 were installed doing damage to my stairs and walls that were enroute to the window installation but not around the window
I asked for the job to be stopped as I wasnt happy and the next room was newly decorated with brand new carpet only 6 weeks old as it was supposed to be done months after the windows. They put scaffold up for the next room but only one person stood on it and the other 5 completely destroyed the new carpet, ive tried to clean it out but it has not worked.

The windows installed were slightly different to my order, they have huge trickle vents which completely destroy the authentic look I paid extra for

I raised this with the company and they stopped working on my job took the next window back to the depot and left the scaffold up

a week later the managing director came round and explained the vents are compulsory since the 17th of June for building regs, but I was not made aware of this and it looks like there is now nothing that can be done, ill never be able to have the windows I ordered. He didnt care at all about the damage to the house and said I would need to prove what the salesman said about doing the job from the outside as it isnt something they decide at point of sale, he said the carpet was unacceptable though and offered to send a professional carpet clearner round, if they couldnt clean it they would replace it.

its been almost a month since that conversation and 10 months since I paid for the job that should take 3 months and I am yet to hear from them again at all with only just over half the job completed, one window has been left unfinished with the parts sat on my drive.

I wish I have just paid 50% less as I would have got the same outcome as I have now but dont know if this is just one of those things or this isnt acceptable as I have no experience in this area?

The_Unready

It won't help your current position, but naming them here would help others to make a fully informed assessment of their likely capabilities to undertake subsequent jobs.

FreeBear

djdaface said: a week later the managing director came round and explained the vents are compulsory since the 17th of June for building regs, but I was not made aware of this and it looks like there is now nothing that can be done

Trickle vents are not compulsory* and as the work was commissioned before the introduction of the updated regs, you wouldn't have needed the vents.

*) Building Regulations, Part F requires "background ventilation" in most rooms - This ventilation does not have to be provided by trickle vents. There are alternatives such as PIV systems delivering fresh air to all habitable rooms. In addition, the approved document is only guidance. It uses advisory words such as "should", and does not explicitly state "must" or "mandatory" with respect to background ventilation.

Had this argument when ordering the last few windows for my house this year, and were fitted after June 17th. No trickle vents fitted as per my instructions.

wigglygiggly

We were told by several companies that we had to have these really ugly trickle vents (we are in England btw if that makes a difference) as we ordered and had them fitted after 17th June. We hate them. We live on a busy main road and was hoping to reduce the road noise as well as have better insulated windows but alas the trickle vents have done nothing about the noise (in fact I think it's worse!).

djdaface

FreeBear said:

djdaface said: a week later the managing director came round and explained the vents are compulsory since the 17th of June for building regs, but I was not made aware of this and it looks like there is now nothing that can be done

Trickle vents are not compulsory* and as the work was commissioned before the introduction of the updated regs, you wouldn't have needed the vents.

*) Building Regulations, Part F requires "background ventilation" in most rooms - This ventilation does not have to be provided by trickle vents. There are alternatives such as PIV systems delivering fresh air to all habitable rooms. In addition, the approved document is only guidance. It uses advisory words such as "should", and does not explicitly state "must" or "mandatory" with respect to background ventilation.

Had this argument when ordering the last few windows for my house this year, and were fitted after June 17th. No trickle vents fitted as per my instructions.

https://www.fensa.org.uk/building-regulations-homeowners

FreeBear

djdaface said:

FreeBear said:

djdaface said: a week later the managing director came round and explained the vents are compulsory since the 17th of June for building regs, but I was not made aware of this and it looks like there is now nothing that can be done

Trickle vents are not compulsory* and as the work was commissioned before the introduction of the updated regs, you wouldn't have needed the vents.

*) Building Regulations, Part F requires "background ventilation" in most rooms - This ventilation does not have to be provided by trickle vents. There are alternatives such as PIV systems delivering fresh air to all habitable rooms. In addition, the approved document is only guidance. It uses advisory words such as "should", and does not explicitly state "must" or "mandatory" with respect to background ventilation.

Had this argument when ordering the last few windows for my house this year, and were fitted after June 17th. No trickle vents fitted as per my instructions.

https://www.fensa.org.uk/building-regulations-homeowners

From the horses mouth, rather than an interpretation by a trade body - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1045918/ADF1.pdf

Feel free to point out the paragraph that states trickle vents must be fitted.

In the meantime, I would draw your attention to the first couple of pages...

Approved documents are approved by the Secretary of State and give practical guidance on common building situations about how to meet the requirements of the Building Regulations 2010 for England.

Each approved document contains:

• general guidance on the performance expected of materials and building work in order to comply with each of the requirements of the Building Regulations, and
• practical examples and solutions on how to achieve compliance for some of the more common building situations.

djdaface

is FENSA a trade body? As I understand it they are the building control inspectors for my job

I've had to do some crazy things in the past just to appease the local Building control inspectors translations of the regulations so I dont think this is something I am willing to push back on, I wanted this to be hassle free

FreeBear

djdaface said:

is FENSA a trade body? As I understand it they are the building control inspectors for my job

I've had to do some crazy things in the past just to appease the local Building control inspectors translations of the regulations so I dont think this is something I am willing to push back on, I wanted this to be hassle free

FENSA is a self certifying scheme for installers so that Building Control do not have to be directly involved. So in that respect, the registered installer is acting as the BC inspector. FENSA also make representations to government about changes to legislation (and approval documents) that impact on the work of the registered installers. They also offer guidance to the installers on how to comply with the regulations - On both those counts, they are doing the job of a trade body..

The government has issued some additional notes on background ventilation - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/approved-document-f-volume-1-dwellings-frequently-asked-questions#can-background-ventilators-be-installed-through-a-wall-to-meet-the-part-f-requirements-instead-of-installing-trickle-ventilators-in-windows

A handy review of the above can be found here - https://www.doubleglazingblogger.com/2022/06/government-publishes-faqs-on-new-trickle-vent-regulations/ - The guy suggests that if you are living on a busy urban road, there is a loophole that allows for vents to be fitted elsewhere in the property.

He also suggests that if refitting less than 30%  of the windows, then trickle vents can be avoided. At the end of the day, if you can't find an installer willing to interpret the rules & guidance to your advantage and lumbers you with trickle vents, there is the option of plugging the holes with expanding foam. Still leaves you with ugly vents, but at least the foam will kill much of the noise.

greenface2

FreeBear said:

djdaface said: a week later the managing director came round and explained the vents are compulsory since the 17th of June for building regs, but I was not made aware of this and it looks like there is now nothing that can be done

Trickle vents are not compulsory* and as the work was commissioned before the introduction of the updated regs, you wouldn't have needed the vents.

*) Building Regulations, Part F requires "background ventilation" in most rooms - This ventilation does not have to be provided by trickle vents. There are alternatives such as PIV systems delivering fresh air to all habitable rooms. In addition, the approved document is only guidance. It uses advisory words such as "should", and does not explicitly state "must" or "mandatory" with respect to background ventilation.

Had this argument when ordering the last few windows for my house this year, and were fitted after June 17th. No trickle vents fitted as per my instructions.

Grey area . If Positive imput ventilation has not already been pre fitted we as a governing body ( I am certass and fensa regd ) are required to fit trickle vents to get my work signed off . I also take the chance to my customers rather than lose the job but theyre aware of the requirement and will accept it . AFAIK the OP can argue that they signed the contract before they changed the gov ruling regarding trickle ventilation and it does sound like the ruling change was not made aware to the customer once the company knew . Dodgy ground , one that I could argue against and probably win . Teams need to come inside your property to do the work . No thought or care seems was taken in regards to any mess . Some windows make more mess than others and steps should be taken along every step . scaffold is sometime useful and often a bigger mess than the job involved . Shame you've had to go through this . How much in total was the payment and what is the plan and what have you left to pay . Sound like the sales rep has made his money by promising you the earth . You cant prove anything he lied about . You could take legal advise to get what you have paid for . 30k for half the house . You have a lot of windows or very expensive frames . Keep me in touch 

jonnydeppiwish!

FreeBear said:

djdaface said:

FreeBear said:

djdaface said: a week later the managing director came round and explained the vents are compulsory since the 17th of June for building regs, but I was not made aware of this and it looks like there is now nothing that can be done

Trickle vents are not compulsory* and as the work was commissioned before the introduction of the updated regs, you wouldn't have needed the vents.

*) Building Regulations, Part F requires "background ventilation" in most rooms - This ventilation does not have to be provided by trickle vents. There are alternatives such as PIV systems delivering fresh air to all habitable rooms. In addition, the approved document is only guidance. It uses advisory words such as "should", and does not explicitly state "must" or "mandatory" with respect to background ventilation.

Had this argument when ordering the last few windows for my house this year, and were fitted after June 17th. No trickle vents fitted as per my instructions.

https://www.fensa.org.uk/building-regulations-homeowners

From the horses mouth, rather than an interpretation by a trade body - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1045918/ADF1.pdf

Feel free to point out the paragraph that states trickle vents must be fitted.

In the meantime, I would draw your attention to the first couple of pages...

Approved documents are approved by the Secretary of State and give practical guidance on common building situations about how to meet the requirements of the Building Regulations 2010 for England.

Each approved document contains:

• general guidance on the performance expected of materials and building work in order to comply with each of the requirements of the Building Regulations, and
• practical examples and solutions on how to achieve compliance for some of the more common building situations.

Building control have just been out to us and said trickle vents are definitive for them to sign off.

greenface2

I am unsure if I knew the new trickle vent regs last November and you as the customer should have been well informed on their decision to install them with vents fitted . You could argue that point I am sure . Also you at least have the slight upper hand owing them 75% still. You need this job done and gone but you've been unfairly treated by them . I don't know them and look like dorset