Arrow and Resolve-call.. debt from nearly 2 Decades ago!

starliteaab

Arrow has been in contact with me regarding a debt of £5k they say they bought from uk high street bank.

There was a personal loan I had taken out back in 2004. but nowhere close to that amount I was really struggling financially and fallen behind on payments .

A few months later in 2005, I had to leave the country due to various factors.  I then returned back to UK in 2008 and started living at a different address. probably in 2010, I received 3-4 letters (perhaps from Arrow .. maybe from another debt collection agency back in 2010// cant remember and it may have referred to the same 'bank') at the new address.

I ignored those.. and that was the end of it . no one chased again.  

about a year ago I moved to another addres. fast forward to 2 months back,  Arrow sent me a letter chasing and referring to the same alleged debt and that I have to pay the £5K. Follwed up by a letter saying they will get  resolvecall to visit me.  And I  just received a letter today from Resolvecall saying they are acting on behalf of Arrow and if I dont respond within 7 days, Arrow will instruct resolvecall to visit my house. 

Summary 
- old debt from nearly 2 decades ago!
 - it was a debt (and importantly from a smaller amount as I recollect) during a very difficult and challenging phase of my life. ( probably irrelevant but fyi) 
- they may have even sold me PPI insurance as it was prevalent at the time,  I dont know. 
 - no idea if CCJ was issued at old address.  could have been in 2005 or maybe 2006 at the old address. I think the ccj register doent show up anything more than 6 years. 
- these letters do not refer to any CCJ debt etc. 
- I have never ackowledged this debt to Arrow/ another  company that contacted me at previous address
- none of the credit reports ( and I have tried them all) show anything about CCJ, or missed payment or outstanding loans, 
- my credit rating is excellent across literally all agencies. and have had no issues over the years with taking loans, leaseses etc, absolutely everything I am on top off.  

could someone please advise best course of action? I read the camel debt website and there is some conflicting info there vs advised on this forum re when to send or not send prove it letters specifically for old debts that may have CCJ. 

As I said absolutely no clue if CCJ was obtained. and not idea if this loan  was statute barred . 

SusieT

Since you do not know if there is a CCJ against the debt, and they have not (yet) referred to one i would start by sending both of them the prove it letter https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2607247/letter-when-you-know-nothing-about-about-the-debt-aka-prove-it-letter  they need to prove that it is for you, then you can follow it with the statute barred one if they do not come back with anything mentioning a CCJ. 

sourcrates

Arrow are the debts owner, resolve call are the stray dogs they have empowered to collect this old, most likely unenforceable debt.

I`d go with SusieT`s advice, any CCJ that may have been granted, would long since of disappeared from sight, so Arrow may not be aware of any CCJ, if indeed, one was ever granted.

They know its dead in the water, as do we, all that remains to be done is tell them that formally, after the results of the "provit" letter are known.

fatbelly

What's the conflicting information? Are you getting confused with a CCA request?

If they write to you demanding money you should always send a prove-it to see if they can.

If their response quotes dates and doesn't mention a ccj  there is a 'not my debt but statute barred anyway' letter you can follow up with.

BadDebtor

starliteaab said:

Arrow has been in contact with me regarding a debt of £5k they say they bought from uk high street bank.

There was a personal loan I had taken out back in 2004. but nowhere close to that amount I was really struggling financially and fallen behind on payments .

A few months later in 2005, I had to leave the country due to various factors.  I then returned back to UK in 2008 and started living at a different address. probably in 2010, I received 3-4 letters (perhaps from Arrow .. maybe from another debt collection agency back in 2010// cant remember and it may have referred to the same 'bank') at the new address.

I ignored those.. and that was the end of it . no one chased again.  

about a year ago I moved to another addres. fast forward to 2 months back,  Arrow sent me a letter chasing and referring to the same alleged debt and that I have to pay the £5K. Follwed up by a letter saying they will get  resolvecall to visit me.  And I  just received a letter today from Resolvecall saying they are acting on behalf of Arrow and if I dont respond within 7 days, Arrow will instruct resolvecall to visit my house. 

Summary 
- old debt from nearly 2 decades ago!
 - it was a debt (and importantly from a smaller amount as I recollect) during a very difficult and challenging phase of my life. ( probably irrelevant but fyi) 
- they may have even sold me PPI insurance as it was prevalent at the time,  I dont know. 
 - no idea if CCJ was issued at old address.  could have been in 2005 or maybe 2006 at the old address. I think the ccj register doent show up anything more than 6 years. 
- these letters do not refer to any CCJ debt etc. 
- I have never ackowledged this debt to Arrow/ another  company that contacted me at previous address
- none of the credit reports ( and I have tried them all) show anything about CCJ, or missed payment or outstanding loans, 
- my credit rating is excellent across literally all agencies. and have had no issues over the years with taking loans, leaseses etc, absolutely everything I am on top off.  

could someone please advise best course of action? I read the camel debt website and there is some conflicting info there vs advised on this forum re when to send or not send prove it letters specifically for old debts that may have CCJ. 

As I said absolutely no clue if CCJ was obtained. and not idea if this loan  was statute barred . 

Before asking them if they have a CCJ I would suggest you contact Registry Trust to search for a CCJ

https://www.registry-trust.org.uk/

They charge £6 per person at a given address, however, you can write to them giving them a number of addresses and ask them to provide all data they store on you as a Subject Access Request.

If there is no CCJ then you could follow the excellent advice by others in this thread

What one sneaky lot did to me is get a CCJ in the last few months of the 6 years of the limitations act, they obtained it by sending papers to an old address I was at 15 years before, once they got the CCJ they wrote to my latest address (as shown on Credit Ref Agencies) but I had been homeless for around 19 months and did not see that post.  I found out after about 2 years and decided to wait it out.  It has about a year and a bit to run (can't remember the date)

So be careful that you never acknowledge the debt

Also consider when the debt started, there used to be a sticky about case law I think it is this one

https://www.eversheds-sutherland.com/global/en/what/articles/index.page?ArticleID=en/Litigation_Support/doyle-v-pra

"Whatever the limitation period is, for example six or twelve years, it is important to understand exactly when the time limit started. Under the Limitation Act, time starts to run from the 'cause of action'. This is not the same for all types of debt, so be careful. In this fact sheet, we look at the cause of action for the main types of debt. If your debt is not included, contact us for advice."  - National Debtline

So as I understand it, if the bank sat on it and did nothing for a while and then decided they had enough, it is that decision that they had enough that makes the difference, I have heard it called a Final Date of Default but I have no idea if that is a formal name. This is the Case Law Judgement

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2019/12.html

So if they somehow managed to extend it (unlikely) then it would be important not to acknowledge the debt.

What you need to remember is that none of these pathetic debt collectors has a right to enter your home, even High Court Enforcement Officer (who do not enforce consumer debt) do not have a right of entry unless they are pursing State debt (e.g Council Parking or Poll Tax).

Most of all what these fools want is for you to engage, then they will offer to settle for a smaller amount (because they paid 20p for your debt), you could remove any implied right of entering your garden from these resolvacall fools but why bother

What I have found is that a ring wired doorbell is a very effective tool, for some reason they spot this and do a U-Turn, don't even knock or push the bell.  I think they might be shy, poor babies.

I have had Arrow come and go, to be honest I think I have had all of them, certainly every company people complain about on here has had a go and failed.  

There is no hurry, they can threaten or give deadlines but do not engage, just ignore, it is your most powerful tool

Get yourself informed about CCJ via SAR if you are tight like me or pay £6 per person address.  

Then I think the Foxtrot Oscar letter below would follow that.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6027755/statute-barred-debts-and-the-limitation-act#latest

Good Luck!

fatbelly

OP is correct - the register only goes back 6 years so if your credit report covers all the likely addresses the info should be there - and is free!

If there is a ccj on this it's the creditor's responsibility to flag it up and give enough info so that it could be checked with the relevant court. No need for a SAR.

You are right to flag up PRA v Doyle but this is a loan where payments were stopped 18(?) years ago - it's most likely that it was defaulted and six years then passed without acknowledgement.

s29(7) of the Limitation Act says it's statute barred and can't be revived. So acknowledgement doesn't really matter in this case but of course the question is whether they got a ccj within the 6-year period. If they did they must flag this up.

Then it's a different argument - but not one the creditor's going to win!

starliteaab

BadDebtor said:

starliteaab said:

Arrow has been in contact with me regarding a debt of £5k they say they bought from uk high street bank.

There was a personal loan I had taken out back in 2004. but nowhere close to that amount I was really struggling financially and fallen behind on payments .

A few months later in 2005, I had to leave the country due to various factors.  I then returned back to UK in 2008 and started living at a different address. probably in 2010, I received 3-4 letters (perhaps from Arrow .. maybe from another debt collection agency back in 2010// cant remember and it may have referred to the same 'bank') at the new address.

I ignored those.. and that was the end of it . no one chased again.  

about a year ago I moved to another addres. fast forward to 2 months back,  Arrow sent me a letter chasing and referring to the same alleged debt and that I have to pay the £5K. Follwed up by a letter saying they will get  resolvecall to visit me.  And I  just received a letter today from Resolvecall saying they are acting on behalf of Arrow and if I dont respond within 7 days, Arrow will instruct resolvecall to visit my house. 

Summary 
- old debt from nearly 2 decades ago!
 - it was a debt (and importantly from a smaller amount as I recollect) during a very difficult and challenging phase of my life. ( probably irrelevant but fyi) 
- they may have even sold me PPI insurance as it was prevalent at the time,  I dont know. 
 - no idea if CCJ was issued at old address.  could have been in 2005 or maybe 2006 at the old address. I think the ccj register doent show up anything more than 6 years. 
- these letters do not refer to any CCJ debt etc. 
- I have never ackowledged this debt to Arrow/ another  company that contacted me at previous address
- none of the credit reports ( and I have tried them all) show anything about CCJ, or missed payment or outstanding loans, 
- my credit rating is excellent across literally all agencies. and have had no issues over the years with taking loans, leaseses etc, absolutely everything I am on top off.  

could someone please advise best course of action? I read the camel debt website and there is some conflicting info there vs advised on this forum re when to send or not send prove it letters specifically for old debts that may have CCJ. 

As I said absolutely no clue if CCJ was obtained. and not idea if this loan  was statute barred . 

Before asking them if they have a CCJ I would suggest you contact Registry Trust to search for a CCJ

https://www.registry-trust.org.uk/

They charge £6 per person at a given address, however, you can write to them giving them a number of addresses and ask them to provide all data they store on you as a Subject Access Request.

If there is no CCJ then you could follow the excellent advice by others in this thread

What one sneaky lot did to me is get a CCJ in the last few months of the 6 years of the limitations act, they obtained it by sending papers to an old address I was at 15 years before, once they got the CCJ they wrote to my latest address (as shown on Credit Ref Agencies) but I had been homeless for around 19 months and did not see that post.  I found out after about 2 years and decided to wait it out.  It has about a year and a bit to run (can't remember the date)

So be careful that you never acknowledge the debt

Also consider when the debt started, there used to be a sticky about case law I think it is this one

https://www.eversheds-sutherland.com/global/en/what/articles/index.page?ArticleID=en/Litigation_Support/doyle-v-pra

"Whatever the limitation period is, for example six or twelve years, it is important to understand exactly when the time limit started. Under the Limitation Act, time starts to run from the 'cause of action'. This is not the same for all types of debt, so be careful. In this fact sheet, we look at the cause of action for the main types of debt. If your debt is not included, contact us for advice."  - National Debtline

So as I understand it, if the bank sat on it and did nothing for a while and then decided they had enough, it is that decision that they had enough that makes the difference, I have heard it called a Final Date of Default but I have no idea if that is a formal name. This is the Case Law Judgement

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2019/12.html

So if they somehow managed to extend it (unlikely) then it would be important not to acknowledge the debt.

What you need to remember is that none of these pathetic debt collectors has a right to enter your home, even High Court Enforcement Officer (who do not enforce consumer debt) do not have a right of entry unless they are pursing State debt (e.g Council Parking or Poll Tax).

Most of all what these fools want is for you to engage, then they will offer to settle for a smaller amount (because they paid 20p for your debt), you could remove any implied right of entering your garden from these resolvacall fools but why bother

What I have found is that a ring wired doorbell is a very effective tool, for some reason they spot this and do a U-Turn, don't even knock or push the bell.  I think they might be shy, poor babies.

I have had Arrow come and go, to be honest I think I have had all of them, certainly every company people complain about on here has had a go and failed.  

There is no hurry, they can threaten or give deadlines but do not engage, just ignore, it is your most powerful tool

Get yourself informed about CCJ via SAR if you are tight like me or pay £6 per person address.  

Then I think the Foxtrot Oscar letter below would follow that.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6027755/statute-barred-debts-and-the-limitation-act#latest

Good Luck!

would doing a search on the registry for a CCJ (on old address), alert any debt collection agencies or the bank? 

fatbelly

starliteaab said:

would doing a search on the registry for a CCJ (on old address), alert any debt collection agencies or the bank? 

No                    !

starliteaab

ok so quick update... I did the paid search using the old address on Registry Trust  for CCJ.. I used my first name and last name (did not use the middle name.. does that matter?) . any way the result is "no records found". 

So do I now...

1. do another search with middle name?

2. send prove it letters to both Arrow and Resolve-call ?

3. Ignore.
AND ask Resolve-call to politely go away if they were to  knock on door. By the way, in this situation, when I open door,  do I need to confirm my name if they ask me? what is a nice polite but firm way to handle this so they go away and not return?

Thanks!

SusieT

I would send the prove it letter, then if they do not mention a CCJ (it would seem as if there will not be one) send the statute barred one. 

starliteaab

SusieT said:

I would send the prove it letter, then if they do not mention a CCJ (it would seem as if there will not be one) send the statute barred one. 

some folks have posted that I should write a hybrid letter? which is combination of prove it and statute barred. that doesnt seem to make logical sense though .