Refund denied for a returned tent as deemed 'used' by removing it from box

powerful_Rogue

DanDare999 said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

DanDare999 said:

Ergates said:

DanDare999 said:

Ergates said:

mr_stripey said:

you don't need to erect a tent to know how big it is - the dimensions on the packaging/website will tell you this

The dimensions on the website will tell you how big a shirt or a pair of shoes are too.  But they won't tell you if they're a good fit.

Go on then, tell us how you check a tent for a good fit. Can't see a tent seven foot in length pinching your toes a bit.

Interesting you mentioned shoes, can you give an example of a shop that would take them back after a ten minute walk outside?

If the outside in question was clean and dry and you didn't mark or dirty the shoes - then any online shop (that sold shoes) would allow you to do that.  The expect people to try on the shoes they order, and if the shoes were clean then they'd have no way of knowing where you'd worn them nor any reason to object to you having worn them outside.

Plenty of running shoe shops will happily allow (and even encourage) you to put the shoes on and run for several minutes on a treadmill.

Show me an online retailer that states you can wear their footwear outdoor when trying them on? Still doesn't answer how it's checking a tent for a good fit.  

It doesn't matter what an online retailer states, the test is what a physical store would allow. 

This varies obviously, on the one hand as the internet has taken over there are less physical shops but on the other hand those that still exist need to do more to earn custom and things like detailed inspection/interaction with the goods may be one way of achieving this.

You said a store by you has tents pitched outside on the grass so there you go an example of how you can handle a tent in a manner you could do so in store, by trying it out on the grass! 

It's all very subjective but equally all academic without the correct durable info from the retailer. 

That doesn't mean you can take another tent from the display and pitch it outside. But then you do think you can return anything you've used for a full refund just because you haven't been told how to cancel the order. 

That is what the legislation states though, out of curiosity, why do you think the legislation would state that if you couldn't do it?

Pollycat

shiraz99 said:

mr_stripey said:

shiraz99 said:

DanDare999 said:

biscan25 said:

We bought a tent from Decathlon a couple of months ago. I bought from the shop as I had a physical voucher from a previous mishap, but had found the tent online. The store didn't have it up as a display model, so the assistant said to go grab a coffee and they'd put one up for me! A+ customer service, but I probably would've bought a different tent if I could have seen it erected.

So I'd say erecting the tent is reasonable for inspection, as people would normally be able to see the tent up in the shop.

My local Decathlon has them erected on the grass outside, would you be happy paying full price for that one?

I'm sorry but that has no relevance. The fact remains, regardless of whatever reason the OP has chosen to cancel the purchase (and they don't have to give any), they are entitled to handle the goods in the same way they could reasonably do in a bricks and mortar store.

But you can't go into a bricks and mortar store and pick a tent and pitch it outside to decide if it's as big as it says on the packaging, can you?

I've been to many an outdoor shop, usually in the bigger retail parks, where they have tents pitched up in store and out the front, in fact I was a tent sale at a garden centre the other day and they had a full range of tents on display outside.

mr_stripey was talking about a prospective buyer pitching a tent.
Not tents pitched by the retailer.

Maybe those tents already pitched would be price marked down as 'ex-display'...

prowla

A retailer's T&Cs do not override the law.

However, if I bought a new tent and it had a blade of grass on it, soil on the tent pegs, adjusted guy-ropes, opened packaging, misaligned folds, etc., then I would be right back at the seller saying it's not new.

Norman_Castle

biscan25 said:

DanDare999 said:

biscan25 said:

We bought a tent from Decathlon a couple of months ago. I bought from the shop as I had a physical voucher from a previous mishap, but had found the tent online. The store didn't have it up as a display model, so the assistant said to go grab a coffee and they'd put one up for me! A+ customer service, but I probably would've bought a different tent if I could have seen it erected.

So I'd say erecting the tent is reasonable for inspection, as people would normally be able to see the tent up in the shop.

My local Decathlon has them erected on the grass outside, would you be happy paying full price for that one?

No, because it's been outside. Waterproofing degrades under UV light. I'd pay full price for the inside pitched one though.

The fabric degrades. I picked up a Decathalon tent which had been pitched outside for a season, the flysheet was brittle and tore easily and the guy ropes were very degraded. Friends were given a very large tent which had been used for many south of France holidays. The flysheet would tear easily.

Norman_Castle

shiraz99 said:

mr_stripey said:

shiraz99 said:

DanDare999 said:

biscan25 said:

We bought a tent from Decathlon a couple of months ago. I bought from the shop as I had a physical voucher from a previous mishap, but had found the tent online. The store didn't have it up as a display model, so the assistant said to go grab a coffee and they'd put one up for me! A+ customer service, but I probably would've bought a different tent if I could have seen it erected.

So I'd say erecting the tent is reasonable for inspection, as people would normally be able to see the tent up in the shop.

My local Decathlon has them erected on the grass outside, would you be happy paying full price for that one?

I'm sorry but that has no relevance. The fact remains, regardless of whatever reason the OP has chosen to cancel the purchase (and they don't have to give any), they are entitled to handle the goods in the same way they could reasonably do in a bricks and mortar store.

But you can't go into a bricks and mortar store and pick a tent and pitch it outside to decide if it's as big as it says on the packaging, can you?

I've been to many an outdoor shop, usually in the bigger retail parks, where they have tents pitched up in store and out the front, in fact I was a tent sale at a garden centre the other day and they had a full range of tents on display outside.

Many smaller shops can't do this though and its unlikely they'd be happy for you to return a pitched tent without prior agreement to do so.

shiraz99

Pollycat said:

shiraz99 said:

mr_stripey said:

shiraz99 said:

DanDare999 said:

biscan25 said:

We bought a tent from Decathlon a couple of months ago. I bought from the shop as I had a physical voucher from a previous mishap, but had found the tent online. The store didn't have it up as a display model, so the assistant said to go grab a coffee and they'd put one up for me! A+ customer service, but I probably would've bought a different tent if I could have seen it erected.

So I'd say erecting the tent is reasonable for inspection, as people would normally be able to see the tent up in the shop.

My local Decathlon has them erected on the grass outside, would you be happy paying full price for that one?

I'm sorry but that has no relevance. The fact remains, regardless of whatever reason the OP has chosen to cancel the purchase (and they don't have to give any), they are entitled to handle the goods in the same way they could reasonably do in a bricks and mortar store.

But you can't go into a bricks and mortar store and pick a tent and pitch it outside to decide if it's as big as it says on the packaging, can you?

I've been to many an outdoor shop, usually in the bigger retail parks, where they have tents pitched up in store and out the front, in fact I was a tent sale at a garden centre the other day and they had a full range of tents on display outside.

mr_stripey was talking about a prospective buyer pitching a tent.
Not tents pitched by the retailer.

Maybe those tents already pitched would be price marked down as 'ex-display'...

That doesn't matter. It's the very fact that they are up and available to inspect that's the main factor.

Andy_L

Ergates said:

DanDare999 said:

shiraz99 said:

DanDare999 said:

shiraz99 said:

DanDare999 said:

Ergates said:

mr_stripey said:

you don't need to erect a tent to know how big it is - the dimensions on the packaging/website will tell you this

The dimensions on the website will tell you how big a shirt or a pair of shoes are too.  But they won't tell you if they're a good fit.

Go on then, tell us how you check a tent for a good fit. Can't see a tent seven foot in length pinching your toes a bit.

Interesting you mentioned shoes, can you give an example of a shop that would take them back after a ten minute walk outside?

Have you actually purchased and owned a tent before?

Have you come across that wasn't a good fit?

Well if you have to ask, you clearly have no idea.

I'll go back to my earlier car analogy. All 4 seat cars should seat 4 adults, that doesn't mean they're all going to be a good fit for four adults. Not all 4 berth tents are going to have the same "fit" for four people.

Explain it then, how can you not establish the "fit" of a tent from the dimensions?

Give me a car brochure and I'd have an accurate idea of how much room I'd have in the back without a test drive. 

If a tent is 125cm across at the base, coming to an apex 90cm above the ground, how steeply do the walls curve in?  How much room would you have to maneuver in and out of the tent?  What if you had your bag in the tent with you?

https://www.calculator.net/triangle-calculator.html?vc=&vx=90&vy=&va=90&vz=62.5&vb=&angleunits=d&x=53&y=20

Pollycat

shiraz99 said:

Pollycat said:

shiraz99 said:

mr_stripey said:

shiraz99 said:

DanDare999 said:

biscan25 said:

We bought a tent from Decathlon a couple of months ago. I bought from the shop as I had a physical voucher from a previous mishap, but had found the tent online. The store didn't have it up as a display model, so the assistant said to go grab a coffee and they'd put one up for me! A+ customer service, but I probably would've bought a different tent if I could have seen it erected.

So I'd say erecting the tent is reasonable for inspection, as people would normally be able to see the tent up in the shop.

My local Decathlon has them erected on the grass outside, would you be happy paying full price for that one?

I'm sorry but that has no relevance. The fact remains, regardless of whatever reason the OP has chosen to cancel the purchase (and they don't have to give any), they are entitled to handle the goods in the same way they could reasonably do in a bricks and mortar store.

But you can't go into a bricks and mortar store and pick a tent and pitch it outside to decide if it's as big as it says on the packaging, can you?

I've been to many an outdoor shop, usually in the bigger retail parks, where they have tents pitched up in store and out the front, in fact I was a tent sale at a garden centre the other day and they had a full range of tents on display outside.

mr_stripey was talking about a prospective buyer pitching a tent.
Not tents pitched by the retailer.

Maybe those tents already pitched would be price marked down as 'ex-display'...

That doesn't matter. It's the very fact that they are up and available to inspect that's the main factor.

But not taken outside from the store by a prospective buyer and erected by that prospective buyer.

I would hazard a guess that not all tents on sale are erected outside for inspection.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Pollycat said:

shiraz99 said:

Pollycat said:

shiraz99 said:

mr_stripey said:

shiraz99 said:

DanDare999 said:

biscan25 said:

We bought a tent from Decathlon a couple of months ago. I bought from the shop as I had a physical voucher from a previous mishap, but had found the tent online. The store didn't have it up as a display model, so the assistant said to go grab a coffee and they'd put one up for me! A+ customer service, but I probably would've bought a different tent if I could have seen it erected.

So I'd say erecting the tent is reasonable for inspection, as people would normally be able to see the tent up in the shop.

My local Decathlon has them erected on the grass outside, would you be happy paying full price for that one?

I'm sorry but that has no relevance. The fact remains, regardless of whatever reason the OP has chosen to cancel the purchase (and they don't have to give any), they are entitled to handle the goods in the same way they could reasonably do in a bricks and mortar store.

But you can't go into a bricks and mortar store and pick a tent and pitch it outside to decide if it's as big as it says on the packaging, can you?

I've been to many an outdoor shop, usually in the bigger retail parks, where they have tents pitched up in store and out the front, in fact I was a tent sale at a garden centre the other day and they had a full range of tents on display outside.

mr_stripey was talking about a prospective buyer pitching a tent.
Not tents pitched by the retailer.

Maybe those tents already pitched would be price marked down as 'ex-display'...

That doesn't matter. It's the very fact that they are up and available to inspect that's the main factor.

But not taken outside from the store by a prospective buyer and erected by that prospective buyer.

I would hazard a guess that not all tents on sale are erected outside for inspection.

The legislation says might reasonably be allowed in a shop, these things would depend upon how well you can articulate your position and what view the claims process would take on the day.

Whilst you can't take a specific tent off the shelf and put it up I'd expect a shop to have display models of different brands and tents with different features allowing you to make an assessment of each and compare the differences, you may for example pick brand A over B because the quality is better. 

The other point is the retailer should have no idea you've pitched the tent, you should be able to do this without any indication, the OP's problem is the packaging being opened which I would say is permitted and if you can open the packaging you can spread out the contents to examine it, by this point you aren't far off pitching the tent.

And even if we argue that you can't open the packaging but you do this doesn't prevent cancellation, it merely allows for a deduction, which would be small for the outer packaging simply having been opened, this is where the trader fails as they stipulate to cancel the goods must be unopened. 

prowla

The thread title says it is "deemed 'used' by removing it from box".

But the OP clarifies that they completely unpacked it and set it up in their garden.

That's quite different.