NHS Leave entitlement (HR !!!!!!-up)?

swindiff

My Wife has been working for her current trust in the NHS for the past 4 years.  Before that she had 2 years in the private sector, and before that she worked in a different NHS trust for 12 years.  So she has been working for the NHS for a total of 16 years but with a 2 year break during that time.

Last year she was told that they had historically allocated her too much leave and that she had to "pay back" 3 days.  We didn't really see this as being very fair as it was their error, but accepted the decision.

This year she dropped down to 90% of her full time hours (she has every other Friday off) and she noticed that they had allocated her more leave this year than last.  Not wanting to find herself in the same situation she queried to her line manager as to why she had more leave entitlement on less hours.  Her line manager, after some investigation said "oh good news, because you have been with the NHS for more than 10 years, you are entitled to more leave"

After some googling it appears that NHS leave entitlement is as follows

• Employees working full time get 27 days holiday plus 8 bank holidays when they first start with the organisation.
• Employees with 5 years NHS service get 29 days holiday and 8 bank holidays.
• Employees with 10 years NHS service get 33 days and 8 bank holidays.

This leave entitlement is irrespective of whether you have any break in service.  So my wife who has been getting 27 days a year since she re-joined the NHS 4 years ago, should have been getting 33 days a year, a shortfall of 6 days each year.

She has complained to her line manager about the situation who has gone to HR and been told, sorry it is up to the employee and their manager to make sure that they are getting the right amount of leave.  Surely this can't be right, surely it is down to HR to ensure these sort of details are correct?

The really galling thing about this is when they thought the mistake was in their favour they were more than happy to claw back what they thought was too much leave that had been given, but now it turn out that is not the case, in fact the opposite is true, there response is basically tough luck and she has lost the leave.

Can they do this? The error here I would think is with NHS HR and they are basically washing their hands of the situation.

Undervalued

swindiff said:

My Wife has been working for her current trust in the NHS for the past 4 years.  Before that she had 2 years in the private sector, and before that she worked in a different NHS trust for 12 years.  So she has been working for the NHS for a total of 16 years but with a 2 year break during that time.

Last year she was told that they had historically allocated her too much leave and that she had to "pay back" 3 days.  We didn't really see this as being very fair as it was their error, but accepted the decision.

This year she dropped down to 90% of her full time hours (she has every other Friday off) and she noticed that they had allocated her more leave this year than last.  Not wanting to find herself in the same situation she queried to her line manager as to why she had more leave entitlement on less hours.  Her line manager, after some investigation said "oh good news, because you have been with the NHS for more than 10 years, you are entitled to more leave"

After some googling it appears that NHS leave entitlement is as follows

• Employees working full time get 27 days holiday plus 8 bank holidays when they first start with the organisation.
• Employees with 5 years NHS service get 29 days holiday and 8 bank holidays.
• Employees with 10 years NHS service get 33 days and 8 bank holidays.

This leave entitlement is irrespective of whether you have any break in service.  So my wife who has been getting 27 days a year since she re-joined the NHS 4 years ago, should have been getting 33 days a year, a shortfall of 6 days each year.

She has complained to her line manager about the situation who has gone to HR and been told, sorry it is up to the employee and their manager to make sure that they are getting the right amount of leave.  Surely this can't be right, surely it is down to HR to ensure these sort of details are correct?

The really galling thing about this is when they thought the mistake was in their favour they were more than happy to claw back what they thought was too much leave that had been given, but now it turn out that is not the case, in fact the opposite is true, there response is basically tough luck and she has lost the leave.

Can they do this? The error here I would think is with NHS HR and they are basically washing their hands of the situation.

It is entirely "fair" (legally speaking) they are entitled to correct an error, just as you would no doubt expect them to do if it was to her advantage.

They are also correct that is is as much an employee's duty to ensure that they are being paid correctly and getting the amount of holiday they are entitled.

However I fully understand your frustration that it seems to "only work one way". Two excuses they may use are that they will only go back X years and / or that any holiday above the statutory minimum is subject to special internal rules.

Savvy_Sue

Union? Is she in one? What do they say?

swindiff

She isn't, but is now considering joining.

Undervalued

swindiff said:

She isn't, but is now considering joining.

Not a bad idea but they are unlikely to help with any pre-existing problem.

Giddypip

Normally if there is a 12 month break in NHS employment the count for AL and sick pay entitlement reset to zero. I'd be checking she's on the right quota now and won't have to repay again in a few years when they realise their mistake.

Savvy_Sue

Undervalued said:

swindiff said:

She isn't, but is now considering joining.

Not a bad idea but they are unlikely to help with any pre-existing problem.

I'd say still worth joining. They might give some advice, and you never know when the next problem will arise.

swindiff

Giddypip said:

Normally if there is a 12 month break in NHS employment the count for AL and sick pay entitlement reset to zero. I'd be checking she's on the right quota now and won't have to repay again in a few years when they realise their mistake.

That is not the case for long service entitlement. Your years service is all that matters, it makes no difference how many breaks of service you have or how long they are.

https://nhsbsa-live.powerappsportals.com/knowledgebase/article/KA-23759/en-us#:~:text=What is a break in,considered a break in service.

swindiff

My wife has emailed the Head of HR who is looking into it for her. Will keep you posted.

Giddypip

swindiff said:

Giddypip said:

Normally if there is a 12 month break in NHS employment the count for AL and sick pay entitlement reset to zero. I'd be checking she's on the right quota now and won't have to repay again in a few years when they realise their mistake.

That is not the case for long service entitlement. Your years service is all that matters, it makes no difference how many breaks of service you have or how long they are.

I've worked in the NHS for over 20 years. It does make a difference.

swindiff

From that link I posted.

Annual Leave

There is no CSD (continuous service date) used to calculate your entitlement to annual leave. Any previous service with a recognised NHS organisation will be used to calculate your entitlement to annual leave; any break in service would not be taken into account.