Oct price cap increase likely to push energy bill to over £10k... for a family of 4...

michaels

QrizB said:

Sea_Shell said:

Obviously stopping draughts is going to benefit our bank balance, but what about our health?
Is it healthy to be "sealed in" our houses all winter?  Surely we need some ventilation?  But with ventilation comes heat loss.
Where hangs the balance?

0.6 air changes per hour seems to be accepted as sufficient:
https://www.passivhaustrust.org.uk/UserFiles/File/Technical Papers/BRE_Passivhaus_Airtightness_Guide.pdf

Very low air leakage rates are required by the Passivhaus standard and must be demonstrated for each certified building by means of a “blower door” air tightness test. The air change rate must be less than or equal to 0.6 air changes per hour, under test conditions.

For comparison a typical British house might leak 10 air changes per hour.

Are there any 'back of the envelope' ways to assess that number for a typical home?

QrizB

michaels said:

QrizB said:

Sea_Shell said:

Obviously stopping draughts is going to benefit our bank balance, but what about our health?
Is it healthy to be "sealed in" our houses all winter?  Surely we need some ventilation?  But with ventilation comes heat loss.
Where hangs the balance?

0.6 air changes per hour seems to be accepted as sufficient:
https://www.passivhaustrust.org.uk/UserFiles/File/Technical Papers/BRE_Passivhaus_Airtightness_Guide.pdf

Very low air leakage rates are required by the Passivhaus standard and must be demonstrated for each certified building by means of a “blower door” air tightness test. The air change rate must be less than or equal to 0.6 air changes per hour, under test conditions.

For comparison a typical British house might leak 10 air changes per hour.

Are there any 'back of the envelope' ways to assess that number for a typical home?

I came across a guide earlier (when looking at the air changes per hour question) but can't find it again now

caveman38

After following Maria's post from the beginning I thought I'd better investigate my usage. I use 10kW of electric per day and am not on a fix.  Without freezer, fridge and iron, I could account for 6kW. I realized that, like her there was somethin amiss and bought a Tapo energy checker.
I have found that my 43 year old Electrolux 6 cubic ft. (160l) freezer is consuming 2.2kW a day on it's own. I'm sure that's the culprit and intend changing it. To be fair although noisy (because the motor runs a lot) it has been fine. I shall first check that it doesn't freeze below -18C. I cannot find any info to tell me the expected consumption, but I'd have thought 1 kW. Looking at future energy prices, it'll pay for itself in no time - if my math is correct.

QrizB

caveman38 said:

I have found that my 43 year old Electrolux 6 cubic ft. (160l) freezer is consuming 2.2kW a day on it's own. I'm sure that's the culprit and intend changing it.

I think you've had your money's worth out of it!

ariarnia

QrizB said:

michaels said:

QrizB said:

Sea_Shell said:

Obviously stopping draughts is going to benefit our bank balance, but what about our health?
Is it healthy to be "sealed in" our houses all winter?  Surely we need some ventilation?  But with ventilation comes heat loss.
Where hangs the balance?

0.6 air changes per hour seems to be accepted as sufficient:
https://www.passivhaustrust.org.uk/UserFiles/File/Technical Papers/BRE_Passivhaus_Airtightness_Guide.pdf

Very low air leakage rates are required by the Passivhaus standard and must be demonstrated for each certified building by means of a “blower door” air tightness test. The air change rate must be less than or equal to 0.6 air changes per hour, under test conditions.

For comparison a typical British house might leak 10 air changes per hour.

Are there any 'back of the envelope' ways to assess that number for a typical home?

I came across a guide earlier (when looking at the air changes per hour question) but can't find it again now

was it something like the time it takes for your house to go from 10 degrees hotter than outside to the same temperature (number of hours)?

i think i've seen something like that when trying to work out the size of radiators we needed in a room. had to enter if the floors were concrete and things like that and it worked out heat loss then how much heat we'd need to put out to bring the temp up. not a normal btu calculator as i've just had another look but something similar. 

MariaAH

caveman38 said:

After following Maria's post from the beginning I thought I'd better investigate my usage. I use 10kW of electric per day and am not on a fix.  Without freezer, fridge and iron, I could account for 6kW. I realized that, like her there was somethin amiss and bought a Tapo energy checker.
I have found that my 43 year old Electrolux 6 cubic ft. (160l) freezer is consuming 2.2kW a day on it's own. I'm sure that's the culprit and intend changing it. To be fair although noisy (because the motor runs a lot) it has been fine. I shall first check that it doesn't freeze below -18C. I cannot find any info to tell me the expected consumption, but I'd have thought 1 kW. Looking at future energy prices, it'll pay for itself in no time - if my math is correct.

Our 9 year old RangeMaster American fridge freezer was doing 2.5kW per day vs the manual that said 1.2kW a day. New one arriving next week - will cost in and expect to break even in less than 2 years. New on is more like 0.8kW a day. I have still not found the missing daily kW...

caveman38

MariaAH said:

caveman38 said:

After following Maria's post from the beginning I thought I'd better investigate my usage. I use 10kW of electric per day and am not on a fix.  Without freezer, fridge and iron, I could account for 6kW. I realized that, like her there was somethin amiss and bought a Tapo energy checker.
I have found that my 43 year old Electrolux 6 cubic ft. (160l) freezer is consuming 2.2kW a day on it's own. I'm sure that's the culprit and intend changing it. To be fair although noisy (because the motor runs a lot) it has been fine. I shall first check that it doesn't freeze below -18C. I cannot find any info to tell me the expected consumption, but I'd have thought 1 kW. Looking at future energy prices, it'll pay for itself in no time - if my math is correct.

Our 9 year old RangeMaster American fridge freezer was doing 2.5kW per day vs the manual that said 1.2kW a day. New one arriving next week - will cost in and expect to break even in less than 2 years. New on is more like 0.8kW a day. I have still not found the missing daily kW...

You have most probably spurred a lot of forumites into checking their consumption. I know I'd most probably not bothered but from this thread. But you disappoint me in still having a black hole in your consumption. We need to know!

ManMadeWays

caveman38 said:

MariaAH said:

caveman38 said:

After following Maria's post from the beginning I thought I'd better investigate my usage. I use 10kW of electric per day and am not on a fix.  Without freezer, fridge and iron, I could account for 6kW. I realized that, like her there was somethin amiss and bought a Tapo energy checker.
I have found that my 43 year old Electrolux 6 cubic ft. (160l) freezer is consuming 2.2kW a day on it's own. I'm sure that's the culprit and intend changing it. To be fair although noisy (because the motor runs a lot) it has been fine. I shall first check that it doesn't freeze below -18C. I cannot find any info to tell me the expected consumption, but I'd have thought 1 kW. Looking at future energy prices, it'll pay for itself in no time - if my math is correct.

Our 9 year old RangeMaster American fridge freezer was doing 2.5kW per day vs the manual that said 1.2kW a day. New one arriving next week - will cost in and expect to break even in less than 2 years. New on is more like 0.8kW a day. I have still not found the missing daily kW...

You have most probably spurred a lot of forumites into checking their consumption. I know I'd most probably not bothered but from this thread. But you disappoint me in still having a black hole in your consumption. We need to know!

Well, due to this thread I now have 8 TP link P110 smart switch/monitors, I got 6 of them for under £10 each from TPlink website direct, with 10% off first order and free delivery as over £50.

They are confirming what I expected , 3 gaming PCs but using an average of around 200w/h, <100 when browsing/light work , >300 when running Apex or other GFX intense work.

But I've fitted Wifi cards and retired a LAN that had 2 switches burning 24/7, also a NAS drive rarely accessed.

Also a Pond/UV setup runs for 12 hours now not 24.

Laptops used for (3 of us) WFH use suprisingly little <50 watts or so per hour.

Still looking at 16 Kw/h a day average, but massive savings on travelling to work

Excluding the PCs/Pump/UV I could get down to circa 3,300 vs average at 3,100 per annum, so I will have to be satisfied with that !

On my phone I can check if a PC/Monitor set up is on if I see my sons watching TV downstairs and shout at them to Sleep the PCs or turn them off !

MariaAH

Great detective work @ManMadeWays!

Vincero

ManMadeWays said:

Laptops used for (3 of us) WFH use suprisingly little <50 watts or so per hour.

If you are really picky about energy usage, you may find there are even better ways to use the laptops even more power efficiently.

Don't know if the tapo smart plugs show power factor / efficiency information, but you may probably find that the laptop chargers are actually more efficient when being used whilst charging up the laptops, instead of when powering them with fully charged batteries.
This depends a lot on how well optimised the power supply adapter is. Theoretically the closer the PF is to 1, the more efficiently it uses energy.

My work provided HP Elitebook will use roughly 30-40w from the mains when fully charged but at a power factor of ~0.6, a number which is unimpressive for modern kit.
But drain the battery down and plug it in to use and charge at the same time and power draw goes to a minimum of 75W and suddenly the power factor improves to >0.9

Unless your laptops are actually really bad, I'm not suggesting to keep draining and charging the batteries as a routine, but it's worth noting - you may find they are better optimised than my example.

To be fair this issue is similar to many devices with switch mode power supplies - they can be hugely inefficient when being hardly utilised. That's why many things like TVs, phone chargers, etc., had advice to disconnect them to save energy instead of leave on standby but now more modern ones people are advised or finding out that they really do use hardly anything.