Landord Evicting me

sienew

macman said:

sienew said:

derobe said:

I was slow to pay for both reasons...


1. Because I thought a periodic tenancy meant that there was no longer a fixed payment date
2. The slow repairs  - This has been during the current heatwave and being without a fridge freezer was extremely inconvenient and then to be ignored when chasing by the landlord/agent (his staff who I can only assume were ignoring me as per his instruction) on top of that pushed me to withhold the rent as I couldn't be without the appliance anymore.

In fairness, if I was aware that point 1 was incorrect then I would have stuck to the standing order but the damage is done and I can't take it back now. If I didn't take this position I may still not have a fridge freezer so can't say I regret doing it.

Again, now the landlord/agent has received the rent they have ignored every single one of my messages querying the notice of possession.

So my stance right now is to stay in the flat and make life difficult for them like they have for me... unless I find somewhere suitable. In terms of getting a reference, can't see why I don't just use my landlord from previous tenancy in 2020/21. Or look at finding somewhere on openrent with a private landlord. Would prefer not to deal with an agent anyway.

Except they haven't made life difficult for you. They rented you a property they owned that has a relatively minor issue (fridge freezer) and an issue that clearly isn't their fault or responsibility (bins). It could be argued that you had made life more difficult for them by paying late. You chose not to sign a new contract which would have provided you with more security. They are perfectly within their rights not to answer you querying the notice of possession, they own the property and are entitled (subject to contractual agreements) to ask you to leave for any reason, it could be something you'd done like paying your rent late or just for personal reasons.

This is an estate agent who will know what they are doing so it's likely if you refuse to leave they'll have you out far quicker than many here are suggesting. Probably 3 months, leaving you with court fees, a bad reference and having to leave the place anyway.

Clearly they don't know what they're doing, because they have failed to regularise the tenancy. They cannot possibly evict the tenant in 3 months. The notice period expires in October, and, based on other accounts here, the absolute minimum wait for a hearing is 3 months, so January '23. The S21 will be thrown out for reasons already given, so the LL will need to re-serve and wait again, another 5 months. June '23. If they are then successful and get a possession order, it's another 4 weeks before bailiffs. So, if the OP wants to stay put, they will not be leaving before July '23 at the very earliest.
I'd advise them to seek alternative accom before then, or try to negotiate with the LL, but it's up to them

Sorry, I did mean 3 months following then notice.

I think your assumption that it'll be thrown out is very big here and has a fairly high chance of being wrong. And if you are wrong, it will give the OP just 4 weeks notice before bailiffs come, not the 5+ months you are talking about or the several months they have now, which is really a large time pressure to find a new place/move out if they haven't already got somewhere lined up. The landlord almost certainly having experience in these matters will give them the edge over the OP who clearly doesn't (not an insult, almost nobody does without a lot of work/research/help).

I agree they should find alternative accommodation asap, ideally before the notice period but there might be some possibility that the landlord will negotiate. The issue being, if they are wanting the place empty they will be hesitant to allow longer as it delays the 3 month wait period for a court date so could be seen as a delay tactic by the tenant, especially if they have (or the landlord believes) they might attempt to stay past the notice period and wait for a court date.

If it was me I'd try be gone by October but certainly would be out of the place before Christmas.

MEM62

derobe said:

I was slow to pay for both reasons...

1. Because I thought a periodic tenancy meant that there was no longer a fixed payment date.

Really?  Did you expect to make random payments?  

derobe said:

2. The slow repairs  - This has been during the current heatwave and being without a fridge freezer was extremely inconvenient and then to be ignored when chasing by the landlord/agent (his staff who I can only assume were ignoring me as per his instruction) on top of that pushed me to withhold the rent as I couldn't be without the appliance anymore.

This is not a legitimate reason for withholding rent.

derobe said:

So my stance right now is to stay in the flat and make life difficult for them like they have for me... unless I find somewhere suitable. 

If, like me, the landlord has proper insurance cover, this will not inconvenience him one bit.  You may leave later than he would like but he will still be collecting rent in the meantime.  He has has the minor inconvenience of sorting some paperwork to pass to his insurer and then sits back and lets them run the legal process.  End result = no inconvenience for the landlord and a bill for the legal/court costs for you.  You don't get the better of this situation and a more prudent approach will serve you well.            
  

macman

sienew said:

macman said:

sienew said:

derobe said:

I was slow to pay for both reasons...


1. Because I thought a periodic tenancy meant that there was no longer a fixed payment date
2. The slow repairs  - This has been during the current heatwave and being without a fridge freezer was extremely inconvenient and then to be ignored when chasing by the landlord/agent (his staff who I can only assume were ignoring me as per his instruction) on top of that pushed me to withhold the rent as I couldn't be without the appliance anymore.

In fairness, if I was aware that point 1 was incorrect then I would have stuck to the standing order but the damage is done and I can't take it back now. If I didn't take this position I may still not have a fridge freezer so can't say I regret doing it.

Again, now the landlord/agent has received the rent they have ignored every single one of my messages querying the notice of possession.

So my stance right now is to stay in the flat and make life difficult for them like they have for me... unless I find somewhere suitable. In terms of getting a reference, can't see why I don't just use my landlord from previous tenancy in 2020/21. Or look at finding somewhere on openrent with a private landlord. Would prefer not to deal with an agent anyway.

Except they haven't made life difficult for you. They rented you a property they owned that has a relatively minor issue (fridge freezer) and an issue that clearly isn't their fault or responsibility (bins). It could be argued that you had made life more difficult for them by paying late. You chose not to sign a new contract which would have provided you with more security. They are perfectly within their rights not to answer you querying the notice of possession, they own the property and are entitled (subject to contractual agreements) to ask you to leave for any reason, it could be something you'd done like paying your rent late or just for personal reasons.

This is an estate agent who will know what they are doing so it's likely if you refuse to leave they'll have you out far quicker than many here are suggesting. Probably 3 months, leaving you with court fees, a bad reference and having to leave the place anyway.

Clearly they don't know what they're doing, because they have failed to regularise the tenancy. They cannot possibly evict the tenant in 3 months. The notice period expires in October, and, based on other accounts here, the absolute minimum wait for a hearing is 3 months, so January '23. The S21 will be thrown out for reasons already given, so the LL will need to re-serve and wait again, another 5 months. June '23. If they are then successful and get a possession order, it's another 4 weeks before bailiffs. So, if the OP wants to stay put, they will not be leaving before July '23 at the very earliest.
I'd advise them to seek alternative accom before then, or try to negotiate with the LL, but it's up to them

Sorry, I did mean 3 months following then notice.

I think your assumption that it'll be thrown out is very big here and has a fairly high chance of being wrong. And if you are wrong, it will give the OP just 4 weeks notice before bailiffs come, not the 5+ months you are talking about or the several months they have now, which is really a large time pressure to find a new place/move out if they haven't already got somewhere lined up. The landlord almost certainly having experience in these matters will give them the edge over the OP who clearly doesn't (not an insult, almost nobody does without a lot of work/research/help).

I agree they should find alternative accommodation asap, ideally before the notice period but there might be some possibility that the landlord will negotiate. The issue being, if they are wanting the place empty they will be hesitant to allow longer as it delays the 3 month wait period for a court date so could be seen as a delay tactic by the tenant, especially if they have (or the landlord believes) they might attempt to stay past the notice period and wait for a court date.

If it was me I'd try be gone by October but certainly would be out of the place before Christmas.

Why? The procedure is perfectly clear regarding the prescribed information: I have highlighted the pertinent point below in bold for you from the govt notes on Form 6a. The judge does not have any discretion on this and must rule the S21 invalid if all the prescribed info cannot be shown to have been supplied. You don't get a pass mark because you've managed to comply with 90% of the requirements.

Prescribed Information. This section applies to tenancies which started on or after 1 October 2015 The landlord is required to provide a copy of the publication “How to rent: the checklist for renting in England” (which may be obtained from www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-to-rent). We recommend that this should be given at the start of the tenancy. Landlords are not required to supply a further copy of the publication each time a different version is published during the tenancy although it is good practice. Where the landlord has failed to provide the publication, the section 21 possession procedure (for which this form is used to give notice) may not be used. 

Exodi

macman said:

sienew said:

macman said:

sienew said:

derobe said:

I was slow to pay for both reasons...


1. Because I thought a periodic tenancy meant that there was no longer a fixed payment date
2. The slow repairs  - This has been during the current heatwave and being without a fridge freezer was extremely inconvenient and then to be ignored when chasing by the landlord/agent (his staff who I can only assume were ignoring me as per his instruction) on top of that pushed me to withhold the rent as I couldn't be without the appliance anymore.

In fairness, if I was aware that point 1 was incorrect then I would have stuck to the standing order but the damage is done and I can't take it back now. If I didn't take this position I may still not have a fridge freezer so can't say I regret doing it.

Again, now the landlord/agent has received the rent they have ignored every single one of my messages querying the notice of possession.

So my stance right now is to stay in the flat and make life difficult for them like they have for me... unless I find somewhere suitable. In terms of getting a reference, can't see why I don't just use my landlord from previous tenancy in 2020/21. Or look at finding somewhere on openrent with a private landlord. Would prefer not to deal with an agent anyway.

Except they haven't made life difficult for you. They rented you a property they owned that has a relatively minor issue (fridge freezer) and an issue that clearly isn't their fault or responsibility (bins). It could be argued that you had made life more difficult for them by paying late. You chose not to sign a new contract which would have provided you with more security. They are perfectly within their rights not to answer you querying the notice of possession, they own the property and are entitled (subject to contractual agreements) to ask you to leave for any reason, it could be something you'd done like paying your rent late or just for personal reasons.

This is an estate agent who will know what they are doing so it's likely if you refuse to leave they'll have you out far quicker than many here are suggesting. Probably 3 months, leaving you with court fees, a bad reference and having to leave the place anyway.

Clearly they don't know what they're doing, because they have failed to regularise the tenancy. They cannot possibly evict the tenant in 3 months. The notice period expires in October, and, based on other accounts here, the absolute minimum wait for a hearing is 3 months, so January '23. The S21 will be thrown out for reasons already given, so the LL will need to re-serve and wait again, another 5 months. June '23. If they are then successful and get a possession order, it's another 4 weeks before bailiffs. So, if the OP wants to stay put, they will not be leaving before July '23 at the very earliest.
I'd advise them to seek alternative accom before then, or try to negotiate with the LL, but it's up to them

Sorry, I did mean 3 months following then notice.

I think your assumption that it'll be thrown out is very big here and has a fairly high chance of being wrong. And if you are wrong, it will give the OP just 4 weeks notice before bailiffs come, not the 5+ months you are talking about or the several months they have now, which is really a large time pressure to find a new place/move out if they haven't already got somewhere lined up. The landlord almost certainly having experience in these matters will give them the edge over the OP who clearly doesn't (not an insult, almost nobody does without a lot of work/research/help).

I agree they should find alternative accommodation asap, ideally before the notice period but there might be some possibility that the landlord will negotiate. The issue being, if they are wanting the place empty they will be hesitant to allow longer as it delays the 3 month wait period for a court date so could be seen as a delay tactic by the tenant, especially if they have (or the landlord believes) they might attempt to stay past the notice period and wait for a court date.

If it was me I'd try be gone by October but certainly would be out of the place before Christmas.

Why? The procedure is perfectly clear regarding the prescribed information: I have highlighted the pertinent point below in bold for you from the govt notes on Form 6a. The judge does not have any discretion on this and must rule the S21 invalid if all the prescribed info cannot be shown to have been supplied. You don't get a pass mark because you've managed to comply with 90% of the requirements.

Prescribed Information. This section applies to tenancies which started on or after 1 October 2015 The landlord is required to provide a copy of the publication “How to rent: the checklist for renting in England” (which may be obtained from www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-to-rent). We recommend that this should be given at the start of the tenancy. Landlords are not required to supply a further copy of the publication each time a different version is published during the tenancy although it is good practice. Where the landlord has failed to provide the publication, the section 21 possession procedure (for which this form is used to give notice) may not be used. 

This is assuming the tenant was not provided a HTR booklet-

At the bottom of page 1 the OP didn't believe they'd received any of the prerequisites and claimed they believed they could pay the rent whenever they wanted.

On page 2 the tenant realised that they'd been emailed all of the information, though couldn't find the booklet, and drops that the real reason they were paying rent late was due to delays in repairing the fridge.

I know estate agents (and owners of estate agencies) can make mistakes, but if I was a betting man, I'd be betting on the estate agent having this right.

This whole thread is just 'how can I make things as difficult as possible?' - so unnessary, we don't need any more s*** tenants, just as we don't need any more s*** landlords.

As an aside, I ordered bins for my last place, I think it was delivered like a week after they took payment? I don't know why they can't organise this themselves and call the council if they have to - it's not the landlords problem.

Also, as suggested above, they likely have landlord insurance anyway so the OPs trivial point-scoring is likely to go unnoticed.

macman

We can only go on what the OP has told us, and they have said a) they don't have a physical copy, and b) they don't have any confirmation of supply in the emails from the LA. You may well be correct in thinking that he's lost it, but that is just a theory.
As I pointed out, the burden of proof is on the LA; unless he's got a signed receipt for it, or an email saying 'you have received the HTR leaflet', then he's going to lose in court.
Totally agree with you on the late rent/bins etc. The OP has not exactly gone out of his way to resolve the issues, and still doesn't seem to grasp why late rent is such a big deal.

TripleH

As has been said, regardless of who is at fault and for what, the OP needs to plan their exit strategy.

Their time at the property is limited (how long, who knows?).

The focus is that it's better to leave on their own terms (ie find somewhere they like at an acceptable level of rent) than take some over priced grotty cesspit.

Exodi

TripleH said:

than take some over priced grotty cesspit.

In the South East we just refer to them as affordable rentals

sidneyvic

Nearly all Landlords gift appliances such as Fridge Freezers as it is too much hassle ...
I bet if you check the Tenancy it says they are a gift.
It sounds like the bins have been ordered but it is the council holding things up.
Being slow to pay your rent because of these issues has just resulted in the landlord wanting to get shot.
Live and learn.....