Speed Awareness Course

Lizmoretti

If I’m caught doing 33mph in a 30 zone, I would be offered/have to do a speed awareness course.

But if I was doing 43mph, I’d be given a fixed penalty.  But why no speed awareness course?  Why is it that someone who has broken the limit so badly doesn’t need to be educated about their transgressions and the potential dangers of doing so?

The_Unready

One could assume that anybody who breaks a speed limit by nearly 43% is perhaps so reckless a driver that they are unlikely to benefit from a course.

Perhaps the only way they'll learn is through points and a fine!

Ditzy_Mitzy

You probably wouldn't receive any punishment at all for 33 in a 30 limit, given that it is below the 10% plus 2 boundary.  They have to account for margins of error with speed recording equipment, i.e. the dial on your dashboard, so generally won't prosecute at such a fine tolerance.  

43 mph is on the borderline for a course.  Some forces state 42 mph as the boundary between course and ticket, but it's possible that others might go higher or choose to exercise discretion.  

More to the point, everyone knows that the courses are a sort of sop to the general public coupled with being a money spinner for the police force and a ready source of cushy jobs for the boys.  I've been on one, it was all right.  

A fixed penalty notice is a harsher punishment all round as it confers points.  

NBLondon

Lizmoretti said:

But why no speed awareness course?  Why is it that someone who has broken the limit so badly doesn’t need to be educated about their transgressions and the potential dangers of doing so?

Are you suggesting that everybody should do the course - with the fine/points added on top for more severe cases?

[Deleted User]

33mph on a speedo could be as low as about 25mph (there is a 10%+6.25mph overread allowed), if you ever go past those speed detector signs you'll get a better idea, so while the person might think they were doing 33 it would be lower. Mine I can do 32mph on the speedo and they show 30mph so 33 while technically illegal if it was 33, they probably were not breaking the law.

SAC need to have a sensible range, given someone doing 42 or 43 was probably doing high 30s or 40, they can still be prosecuted and not given a course if it was considered dangerous but whether it should be lower is a different debate, presumably the police/safety people have decided that is a sensible threshold.

shiraz99

Lizmoretti said:

If I’m caught doing 33mph in a 30 zone, I would be offered/have to do a speed awareness course.

But if I was doing 43mph, I’d be given a fixed penalty.  But why no speed awareness course?  Why is it that someone who has broken the limit so badly doesn’t need to be educated about their transgressions and the potential dangers of doing so?

As others have mentioned you'd be very unlucky to get anything for doing 33mph in a 30. The ACPO guidelines state the threshold for speeding offences to be 10% + 2mph, so you'd need to be doing at least 35mph before any action.

The difference between getting a course and being prosecuted is all about how much of a danger you are. Clearly driving at or in excess at 43mph in a 30 shows you to be more of dangerous road user than simply straying over the speed limit a bit.

Lizmoretti

NBLondon said:

Lizmoretti said:

But why no speed awareness course?  Why is it that someone who has broken the limit so badly doesn’t need to be educated about their transgressions and the potential dangers of doing so?

Are you suggesting that everybody should do the course - with the fine/points added on top for more severe cases?

Well… yes.  It seems to me that the speed awareness course is suggesting that those who break the limit need re-educating on the dangers of speeding in order to persuade them to not speed in the future.

So if it’s important to re-educate someone doing 33mph, surely it’s even more important to re-educate the driver who though it was ok to go 43mph (as well as give them the punishment of the points and fine)?

Lizmoretti

shiraz99 said:

Lizmoretti said:

If I’m caught doing 33mph in a 30 zone, I would be offered/have to do a speed awareness course.

But if I was doing 43mph, I’d be given a fixed penalty.  But why no speed awareness course?  Why is it that someone who has broken the limit so badly doesn’t need to be educated about their transgressions and the potential dangers of doing so?

As others have mentioned you'd be very unlucky to get anything for doing 33mph in a 30…

People seem to be getting really hung-up on my hypothetical speeds.  But the actual speeds are not the point of my post and, as someone who doesn’t break the limit, something I’m not too clued-up on.

For the purposes of argument, just replace my speed examples with “a speed that results in a speed awareness course” and “a speed that results in an FPN” and read my OP again.

Ditzy_Mitzy

Lizmoretti said:

shiraz99 said:

Lizmoretti said:

If I’m caught doing 33mph in a 30 zone, I would be offered/have to do a speed awareness course.

But if I was doing 43mph, I’d be given a fixed penalty.  But why no speed awareness course?  Why is it that someone who has broken the limit so badly doesn’t need to be educated about their transgressions and the potential dangers of doing so?

As others have mentioned you'd be very unlucky to get anything for doing 33mph in a 30…

People seem to be getting really hung-up on my hypothetical speeds.  But the actual speeds are not the point of my post and, as someone who doesn’t break the limit, something I’m not too clued-up on.

For the purposes of argument, just replace my speed examples with “a speed that results in a speed awareness course” and “a speed that results in an FPN” and read my OP again.

The general consensus is that a speed awareness course is a less harsh punishment than a proper ticket, so courses get offered in less serious cases of speeding and tickets in more serious cases.  It sounds as if your opinion differs to the general consensus, which is your prerogative, but I have to say that I disagree.  I have had both, a ticket and a course, and much preferred the course as my licence remained clean.  I'd much prefer a course if caught again.  

NBLondon

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

The general consensus is that a speed awareness course is a less harsh punishment than a proper ticket, so courses get offered in less serious cases of speeding and tickets in more serious cases.  It sounds as if your opinion differs to the general consensus, which is your prerogative, but I have to say that I disagree.  I have had both, a ticket and a course, and much preferred the course as my licence remained clean.  I'd much prefer a course if caught again.  

So the actual question is...

Why not Course Only for low level offence and Course+Fine for medium level offence and Course+Fine+Points for more serious offences?

If you've done a course and paid attention - you shouldn't be caught again.  If the course works everyone should do it.

Ditzy_Mitzy

NBLondon said:

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

The general consensus is that a speed awareness course is a less harsh punishment than a proper ticket, so courses get offered in less serious cases of speeding and tickets in more serious cases.  It sounds as if your opinion differs to the general consensus, which is your prerogative, but I have to say that I disagree.  I have had both, a ticket and a course, and much preferred the course as my licence remained clean.  I'd much prefer a course if caught again.  

So the actual question is...

Why not Course Only for low level offence and Course+Fine for medium level offence and Course+Fine+Points for more serious offences?

If you've done a course and paid attention - you shouldn't be caught again.  If the course works everyone should do it.

I suspect that imposing courses in addition to speeding tickets would be unpopular and impossible to police at a practical level.  The current system offers speed awareness courses as an alternative to a speeding ticket and points.  If one does not wish to take the course, for whatever reason, one may accept a ticket and points in lieu.  Additionally one will also be issued with a ticket and points if one books a place on a course and fails to attend without good reason.  The greater punishment enforces compliance with the conditions of the lesser punishment, i.e. taking the course.

If trying to mete out both punishments, however, one runs into difficulties.  Why should someone who has already been issued with a ticket and had his or her licence endorsed pay to attend a speed awareness course and waste time and money going to it?  Action has already been taken.  What else can the police do?  Issue another speeding ticket?  Of course not.  A fine?  Perhaps, but that's got to be administered and chased and so on.  Court?  Community service?  It's a bureaucratic nightmare and is bordering on the draconian.