TFL Overcharge

Rannadale

My wife travels from Hertfordshire to Kings Cross twice a week, she pays at the station barriers with her Partnership credit card on her Iphone and Apple watch  I noticed that the amount charged varied, when she contacted TFL they explained that if she did not use the same device at the barriers for the outward and return journeys, their system would not charge the correct fare. They were able to check back 13 months on their system and she received a refund of £56.30. I suggest anyone who uses these devices, checks their bank and credit card statements for discrepancies.

nyermen

Yes thats correct afaik - while the underlying credit card may be the same, apple pay (I presume its via this) generates a unique card number for each device i believe.

That said, TFL could be a little more helpful, because they do receive the underlying card details (somehow - because all my apple pay entries are listed under my real credit card number, albeit there seems to be a separate section for each device) with a differing reference number.

jon81uk

Yep its not really an overcharge, they have charged based on the device being touched in and out.
There was a lot of communication about always using the same device to touch in and out when the contactless system first started.

Chino

jon81uk said:

There was a lot of communication about always using the same device to touch in and out when the contactless system first started.

Not much use for someone travelling now though. Particularly when, as far as the customer is concerned, whether using an Iphone or an Apple watch device, it's all Apple Pay.

jon81uk

Chino said:

jon81uk said:

There was a lot of communication about always using the same device to touch in and out when the contactless system first started.

Not much use for someone travelling now though. Particularly when, as far as the customer is concerned, whether using an Iphone or an Apple watch device, it's all Apple Pay.

Still clear in the how to use contactless on the website, there is even a picture to show not to use a different device to touch in and out.
Contactless and mobile pay as you go - Transport for London (tfl.gov.uk)

dr_adidas01

Its not an overcharge at all, its your wifes fault for not paying attention, it does say that you should use the same card and or device otherwise you maybe charged twice or the incomplete journey fare.

Its exactly the same here in Manchester when using either the Metro or Buses, there are lots of signs and even announcements that say "Use the same device or card when touching in or out, otherwise you will be charged the incomplete journey fare".

dr_adidas01

Chino said:

jon81uk said:

There was a lot of communication about always using the same device to touch in and out when the contactless system first started.

Not much use for someone travelling now though. Particularly when, as far as the customer is concerned, whether using an Iphone or an Apple watch device, it's all Apple Pay.

You need to be aware that although you think Apple devices use Apple pay the same on each device, each device has its own unique token id that identifies which device was used to pay. 

So if you use your iPhone to say tap in to travel, then use your Apple watch to tap out at your journeys end, the system will see that two separate devices have been used and will charge for 2 single journeys.

Where as if you used your phone to tap in and then your phone to tap out, then you will only be charged the single fair or the daily cap if you use the same device multiple times while traveling.

It would also be the same if you used your watch.

Grumpy_chap

I can see how this might have been inconvenient for the OP's wife, but I can't see how it is TFL's fault.

There are many posters and other signage across the TFL network advising to be sure to always tap in and out with the same card / device to avoid paying too much.  

It also seems logical (to me at least) that if the convenient way to tap in is for me to use my watch, then that would be convenient every time and not flip-flopping between watch and phone and card etc.

Even if, as others mentioned TFL can see the actual card behind the device ID, that is not a sure-fire way for TFL to interpret who was using the devices / card.

It is quite possible that the OP would travel on the train using their contactless card directly.
The OP's wife could also travel, using her watch.
The OP's son could also travel, using the phone.
All three could be linked back to the same actual card, yet it would not be appropriate for the TFL to assess that as one person travelling using three devices and then apply the daily cap.

This really does seem like a case where it is down to the user to use one device / card on a consistent basis.

Being an MSE'er I simply wouldn't have an expensive £1k watch phone combination in the first place.  I actually find using an Oyster card the simplest way to keep travel spend separate.

born_again

I would be 99.9% certain that TFL do not see any actual card details when using Apple or android pay. As that is the whole point of these systems. Not sharing the card details.