£400 rebate - what if you dont spend £67 that month

Section62

The_Green_Hornet said:

It means that if your DD is £100 you will only pay £33/£34 & if your DD is £50 you will pay nothing and  £16/£17 will be paid into your bank account.

Purely semantically, it doesn't say that.  It says -

"or as a refund to the customer’s bank account following direct debit collection during each month of delivery"

If you "pay nothing" then there is no direct debit collection for a refund to follow.

A literal interpretation of that paragraph (the one on the .gov site) is that following the collection of the normal £50 DD, a refund of £116/£117 would be made.

Which is why I suspect the paragraph has been written with the majority of cases in mind, not the edge cases where the normal DD amount is close to or less than the rebate amount.

And hence the reference to "supplier guidance" coming out later, once they've worked out the details like this.

Happy to agree to differ, pending publication of that guidance or other clarification from the government.

Section62

The_Green_Hornet said:

Section62 said:

The_Green_Hornet said:

You should have carried on reading your own link.

• direct debit customers will receive the discount automatically as a reduction to the monthly direct debit amount collected, or as a refund to the customer’s bank account following direct debit collection during each month of delivery

I'm not sure that means what it appears to mean.

I think it means that either 1) the energy co will reduce the amount of the DD or 2) the energy company will keep the DD at the same level, and pay £67 back to the customer.

I think it is written with the majority of customers whose monthly DD is significantly more than £67 in mind, not the edge cases where people use/pay less than that amount each month.

It doesn't explicitly answer the OP's question about what happens if your normal monthly DD is less than £67.  It implies a refund may be made after a DD has been taken, but it doesn't explicitly state that residual amounts must be sent to the customer's bank account rather than being held as credit on account.

In fact if we continue reading that link it says -

more supplier guidance on this will be published ahead of October’s launch

So unless anyone knows that this detail has been specifically dealt with elsewhere then I'd suggest we probably won't know for sure (either way) until then.

It means that if your DD is £100 you will only pay £33/£34 & if your DD is £50 you will pay nothing and  £16/£17 will be paid into your bank account.

Some supplier guidance apparently emerging - British Gas will still take the (say) £50 DD, then refund £50 to your bank account, and add the £17 as a credit to your energy account.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6379094/british-gas-explanation-of-how-the-ebss-scheme-will-work

Ultrasonic

Section62 said:

The_Green_Hornet said:

Section62 said:

The_Green_Hornet said:

You should have carried on reading your own link.

• direct debit customers will receive the discount automatically as a reduction to the monthly direct debit amount collected, or as a refund to the customer’s bank account following direct debit collection during each month of delivery

I'm not sure that means what it appears to mean.

I think it means that either 1) the energy co will reduce the amount of the DD or 2) the energy company will keep the DD at the same level, and pay £67 back to the customer.

I think it is written with the majority of customers whose monthly DD is significantly more than £67 in mind, not the edge cases where people use/pay less than that amount each month.

It doesn't explicitly answer the OP's question about what happens if your normal monthly DD is less than £67.  It implies a refund may be made after a DD has been taken, but it doesn't explicitly state that residual amounts must be sent to the customer's bank account rather than being held as credit on account.

In fact if we continue reading that link it says -

more supplier guidance on this will be published ahead of October’s launch

So unless anyone knows that this detail has been specifically dealt with elsewhere then I'd suggest we probably won't know for sure (either way) until then.

It means that if your DD is £100 you will only pay £33/£34 & if your DD is £50 you will pay nothing and  £16/£17 will be paid into your bank account.

Some supplier guidance apparently emerging - British Gas will still take the (say) £50 DD, then refund £50 to your bank account, and add the £17 as a credit to your energy account.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6379094/british-gas-explanation-of-how-the-ebss-scheme-will-work

This credit to the energy account is what's in the official government document on this, in an explicit sentence covering when the DD is less than £66. I don't have the link to hand but remember it's on page 29!

Section62

Ultrasonic said:

Section62 said:

The_Green_Hornet said:

Section62 said:

The_Green_Hornet said:

You should have carried on reading your own link.

• direct debit customers will receive the discount automatically as a reduction to the monthly direct debit amount collected, or as a refund to the customer’s bank account following direct debit collection during each month of delivery

I'm not sure that means what it appears to mean.

I think it means that either 1) the energy co will reduce the amount of the DD or 2) the energy company will keep the DD at the same level, and pay £67 back to the customer.

I think it is written with the majority of customers whose monthly DD is significantly more than £67 in mind, not the edge cases where people use/pay less than that amount each month.

It doesn't explicitly answer the OP's question about what happens if your normal monthly DD is less than £67.  It implies a refund may be made after a DD has been taken, but it doesn't explicitly state that residual amounts must be sent to the customer's bank account rather than being held as credit on account.

In fact if we continue reading that link it says -

more supplier guidance on this will be published ahead of October’s launch

So unless anyone knows that this detail has been specifically dealt with elsewhere then I'd suggest we probably won't know for sure (either way) until then.

It means that if your DD is £100 you will only pay £33/£34 & if your DD is £50 you will pay nothing and  £16/£17 will be paid into your bank account.

Some supplier guidance apparently emerging - British Gas will still take the (say) £50 DD, then refund £50 to your bank account, and add the £17 as a credit to your energy account.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6379094/british-gas-explanation-of-how-the-ebss-scheme-will-work

This credit to the energy account is what's in the official government document on this, in an explicit sentence covering when the DD is less than £66. I don't have the link to hand but remember it's on page 29!

Here -

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/technical-proposals-for-the-energy-bills-support-scheme

(credit to @Spoonie_Turtle )

Ultrasonic

Section62 said:

Ultrasonic said:

Section62 said:

The_Green_Hornet said:

Section62 said:

The_Green_Hornet said:

You should have carried on reading your own link.

• direct debit customers will receive the discount automatically as a reduction to the monthly direct debit amount collected, or as a refund to the customer’s bank account following direct debit collection during each month of delivery

I'm not sure that means what it appears to mean.

I think it means that either 1) the energy co will reduce the amount of the DD or 2) the energy company will keep the DD at the same level, and pay £67 back to the customer.

I think it is written with the majority of customers whose monthly DD is significantly more than £67 in mind, not the edge cases where people use/pay less than that amount each month.

It doesn't explicitly answer the OP's question about what happens if your normal monthly DD is less than £67.  It implies a refund may be made after a DD has been taken, but it doesn't explicitly state that residual amounts must be sent to the customer's bank account rather than being held as credit on account.

In fact if we continue reading that link it says -

more supplier guidance on this will be published ahead of October’s launch

So unless anyone knows that this detail has been specifically dealt with elsewhere then I'd suggest we probably won't know for sure (either way) until then.

It means that if your DD is £100 you will only pay £33/£34 & if your DD is £50 you will pay nothing and  £16/£17 will be paid into your bank account.

Some supplier guidance apparently emerging - British Gas will still take the (say) £50 DD, then refund £50 to your bank account, and add the £17 as a credit to your energy account.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6379094/british-gas-explanation-of-how-the-ebss-scheme-will-work

This credit to the energy account is what's in the official government document on this, in an explicit sentence covering when the DD is less than £66. I don't have the link to hand but remember it's on page 29!

Here -

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/technical-proposals-for-the-energy-bills-support-scheme

(credit to @Spoonie_Turtle )

That's the one. And the relevant sentence states:

Where the EBSS payments is higher than the Direct Debit amount to be collected, the remaining balance

will be credited to the customer’s account.

pochase

Is there anywhere mentioned what happens if you don't pay by "fixed" direct debit?

Variable direct debit should just be reduced I assume as it is variable anyway.

But how will cheque/cash/standing order work?

Did BG email mention anything here?

Marvel1

pochase said:

Is there anywhere mentioned what happens if you don't pay by "fixed" direct debit?

Variable direct debit should just be reduced I assume as it is variable anyway.

But how will cheque/cash/standing order work?

Did BG email mention anything here?

Is this what you mean?

• standard credit customers and payment card customers will see the discount automatically applied as a credit to standard credit customers’ accounts in the first week of each month of delivery, with the credit appearing as it would if the customer had made a payment

As my parents have a quarterly bill and pay by one of the methods you mentioned and I'm taking a guess this is how it works.

Spoonie_Turtle

pochase said:

Is there anywhere mentioned what happens if you don't pay by "fixed" direct debit?

Variable direct debit should just be reduced I assume as it is variable anyway.

But how will cheque/cash/standing order work?

Did BG email mention anything here?

I can't speak to the BG e-mail but the expectation is set out on the gov.uk link above - do cheque/cash/SO count as 'standard credit'?

• "standard credit customers (pay on receipt): EBSS grants will be applied as a credit to standard credit customers’ accounts in the first week of each month of EBSS delivery, with the credit appearing as it would if the customer had made a payment.  The grant should be provided monthly regardless of whether the account is paid monthly, quarterly or has an associated payment card"

(Incidentally I had completely misunderstood the point about crediting remaining balances to DD customers' energy accounts, thanks @Section62 for clearing that up!)

Section62

Spoonie_Turtle said:

(Incidentally I had completely misunderstood the point about crediting remaining balances to DD customers' energy accounts, thanks Section62 for clearing that up!)

Yes, it was only reading the whole of the discussion for Q6 it was apparent that they used the words "customers' bank account" in a way which suggested "customer's account" was intended to mean the energy account.

The BG announcement seems to confirm that, although it will be interesting to see how other suppliers deal with this.

The other day I just felt the simple wording on the .gov site to be too ambiguous for any of us to draw conclusions without the further guidance etc.

Spoonie_Turtle

Section62 said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

(Incidentally I had completely misunderstood the point about crediting remaining balances to DD customers' energy accounts, thanks Section62 for clearing that up!)

Yes, it was only reading the whole of the discussion for Q6 it was apparent that they used the words "customers' bank account" in a way which suggested "customer's account" was intended to mean the energy account.

The BG announcement seems to confirm that, although it will be interesting to see how other suppliers deal with this.

The other day I just felt the simple wording on the .gov site to be too ambiguous for any of us to draw conclusions without the further guidance etc.

Yes, most definitely.

I'd read that whole section of the document several times but the difference in wording just hadn't clicked until after reading your post.