Solar panels analogue meter going backwards

SAC2334

[Deleted User] said:

pochase said:

SAC2334 said:

melb said:

thanks for all the comments.  I don't understand how I am stealing electricity if we are producing our own and the fact that the meter isn't moving forwards means that we are not using any more than that surely?

I was a meter reader for BG and others for 20 years and found many of these backwards running meters . 

The only meter which did this was the Sangamo Weston meter, a very common meter . 
BG should know that if you have solar panels then this meter with its rotating barrel will reverse and start to take off units you used yesterday evening especially on a sunny day when occupiers are out and not many units are being used .

Every supplier should know that this very common analogue meter reverses with solar panels   .What it shows is how hopeless suppliers really are . They know the make and model of the meter 

 Youtube show them in use reversing  and has done for years .

The meter is faulty, in your terms and conditions you are obliged to declare a meter is faulty . 
I would stop short at calling it theft .

How is the supplier to know about a solar panel if the OP has not registered it for SEG?

And the benefit of a meter running backwards is much bigger than the SEG export tariff. So what would you say it is if I don't inform the supplier that I have a setup that will give me energy for less than the regular cost?

Try reading my post on page 2: it isn’t rocket science. If a consumer is claiming extraordinarily low usage because the index reading is going backwards when solar is being exported then the supplier may want its revenue protection team to investigate. 

I did query backwards running meters with my main British Gas Revenue Protection Unit Officer. He was not interested at all . That is why I said I stop short at calling it theft . 
First thing the occupier claims is that they had no idea  the meter was running backwards and no one can prove otherwise .

British Gas RPU Officers get a percentage of the back billing as a bonus so if they can t see any bonus in it then its not worth their time and they concentrate on lucrative Takeaways or other more worthy properties  where they will usually get a large back billing percentage bonus  . 
I only ever had regular dealings with BG RPU who have a large team with very good training . 

That is a job with good prospects and salary if anyone fancies that sort of work. 
The BBC once  made a short 30 min TV prog following BG RPU  around on their job.. Real eye opener on  meter tampering .

I

pochase

Do they get a percentage on the additional amounts billed, or only on the money that is really recovered from the customer?

If there is nothing to be recovered I understand why they are not touching it, in this case a commission based incentive would be really very bad. 

[Deleted User]

SAC2334 said:

Dolor said:

pochase said:

SAC2334 said:

melb said:

thanks for all the comments.  I don't understand how I am stealing electricity if we are producing our own and the fact that the meter isn't moving forwards means that we are not using any more than that surely?

I was a meter reader for BG and others for 20 years and found many of these backwards running meters . 

The only meter which did this was the Sangamo Weston meter, a very common meter . 
BG should know that if you have solar panels then this meter with its rotating barrel will reverse and start to take off units you used yesterday evening especially on a sunny day when occupiers are out and not many units are being used .

Every supplier should know that this very common analogue meter reverses with solar panels   .What it shows is how hopeless suppliers really are . They know the make and model of the meter 

 Youtube show them in use reversing  and has done for years .

The meter is faulty, in your terms and conditions you are obliged to declare a meter is faulty . 
I would stop short at calling it theft .

How is the supplier to know about a solar panel if the OP has not registered it for SEG?

And the benefit of a meter running backwards is much bigger than the SEG export tariff. So what would you say it is if I don't inform the supplier that I have a setup that will give me energy for less than the regular cost?

Try reading my post on page 2: it isn’t rocket science. If a consumer is claiming extraordinarily low usage because the index reading is going backwards when solar is being exported then the supplier may want its revenue protection team to investigate. 

I did query backwards running meters with my main British Gas Revenue Protection Unit Officer. He was not interested at all . That is why I said I stop short at calling it theft . 

Fortunately, your colleagues in the RPU do not define what constitutes theft in English Law. The fact that the RPU chooses to ignore backwards running meters rather goes against their mandate to protect revenue for their employer and company shareholders. Energy that is not charged for is revenue lost.

Definition (English Law):

A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it;

The OP has said that he was apprised of the fact that the meter is turning backwards, and advised to ignore it. I will leave it to others to make their own judgement about whether it is theft or not if the OP decides not to inform his supplier.

M1SER

A backwards running meter merely means that the grid is effectively being used as a gigantic battery. Electricity is simply being lent to the grid for a short period of time. The only "theft" argument is that the grid is being deprived of potential short term storage fees.

M1SER

And with the current price hike it should not be surprising if some consumers drastically reduce their usage.

MWT

M1SER said:

A backwards running meter merely means that the grid is effectively being used as a gigantic battery. Electricity is simply being lent to the grid for a short period of time. The only "theft" argument is that the grid is being deprived of potential short term storage fees.

No, the theft is the loss of the transport fees associated with the delivery of energy to the customer that are being negated by the meter running backwards.

Even in the USA where net metering is more common, you still have to pay for the transport of all the energy consumed, even if you deliver back to the grid an equivalent amount of power.

deano2099

Dolor said:

SAC2334 said:

Dolor said:

pochase said:

SAC2334 said:

melb said:

thanks for all the comments.  I don't understand how I am stealing electricity if we are producing our own and the fact that the meter isn't moving forwards means that we are not using any more than that surely?

I was a meter reader for BG and others for 20 years and found many of these backwards running meters . 

The only meter which did this was the Sangamo Weston meter, a very common meter . 
BG should know that if you have solar panels then this meter with its rotating barrel will reverse and start to take off units you used yesterday evening especially on a sunny day when occupiers are out and not many units are being used .

Every supplier should know that this very common analogue meter reverses with solar panels   .What it shows is how hopeless suppliers really are . They know the make and model of the meter 

 Youtube show them in use reversing  and has done for years .

The meter is faulty, in your terms and conditions you are obliged to declare a meter is faulty . 
I would stop short at calling it theft .

How is the supplier to know about a solar panel if the OP has not registered it for SEG?

And the benefit of a meter running backwards is much bigger than the SEG export tariff. So what would you say it is if I don't inform the supplier that I have a setup that will give me energy for less than the regular cost?

Try reading my post on page 2: it isn’t rocket science. If a consumer is claiming extraordinarily low usage because the index reading is going backwards when solar is being exported then the supplier may want its revenue protection team to investigate. 

I did query backwards running meters with my main British Gas Revenue Protection Unit Officer. He was not interested at all . That is why I said I stop short at calling it theft . 

Fortunately, your colleagues in the RPU do not define what constitutes theft in English Law. The fact that the RPU chooses to ignore backwards running meters rather goes against their mandate to protect revenue for their employer and company shareholders. Energy that is not charged for is revenue lost.

Definition (English Law):

A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it;.

Intent is tricky here and "theft" is quite a loaded word. Personally, I'd say given the post the OP made, he wasn't intentionally setting out to steal anything. The installer told him it was fine, but he's started to get concerned that he was advised wrong, and hence has come on here to ask. Had he known what he was doing all along, he wouldn't be posting on here (especially as if traced, it disproves the otherwise watertight "we didn't even realise it was running backwards" defense).
What's interesting is now he has been informed what he's doing is wrong, and so failing to act at this point would constitute theft. As he's now knowingly, rather than unknowingly, taking the electricity he's not entitled to.
-edit -hadn't realised this was an old discussion, sorry