Naive question

Evan3020

So a smart guy like you would have fixed last winter?

[Deleted User]

Taking Shell Energy Retail as an example. It has needed, and continues to need, funding from other parts of the Shell Group. From Shell Energy Retail’s last accounts:

Were it not for this financial support, we can only speculate on whether Shell Energy Retail would be trading today.

wittynamegoeshere

Awww poor Shell.  Do they have a Just Giving page, I feel really sorry for them.

Do you actually believe this nonsense?

Gas comes out of a hole in the ground, for close to nothing.  Their retail division sells it at a massive price to the mug public.  They have the ability to adjust the transfer price between their different divisions so they can make any part of it make a profit or a loss.  It makes good PR if they can make it appear that the division you pay your bill to is not making tons of profit.  Unsurprisingly this is what they do, and some fall for it.

spot1034

wittynamegoeshere said:

It's all part of the plan.  Sadly many have been fooled into thinking all this is somehow OK, based upon nominal barriers between different divisions within the same companies.  I'm convinced that PR people are posting here and elsewhere on behalf of the energy companies to try and convince the sheeple that they're not actually laughing their heads off at us all handing our money over.

Gas and oil costs the same to get out of the ground and process as it did last year, yet this winter they are charging 3x the price they did last winter.

That is because oil and gas are commodities which are traded on international markets that govern what they are worth. The market price has risen because markets reflect supply and demand. Fear is a significant factor in markets, and right now there is a huge amount of fear that demand in the coming winter will outstrip the available supply. That is why the price has risen so sharply. If you don't think the present price is correct, how would you determine what the 'correct' price for a commodity is?

Evan3020

"Gas comes out of a hole in the ground, for close to nothing."

So go and get some then.

wittynamegoeshere

Many other countries are not in the same state that we are in.  They have governments that stand up to industry on behalf of their people, or state-run suppliers.

Sadly many here have their heads ruled by fundamentalist capitalism, in which everything has a price and supply and demand are gods.

...at which point someone will say that communism would be worse, like that proves anything.

Most sensible democratic countries are able to find a sensible middle-ground, where businesses compete if competition serves the public best, public services are provided by the government and the public don't get fleeced.

Brie

wittynamegoeshere said:

Gas comes out of a hole in the ground, for close to nothing.  

Yes this is completely true.  Gas comes out under pressure so takes very little effort from the energy companies. 

That is after doing all the exploration to find the best places to drill.  Setting up pipelines to get it to where it needs to be used.  Purifying?  Monitoring?  Measuring volumes?  I guess that's all done free by the energy elves.

wittynamegoeshere

In short, the UK energy that is provided to UK customers does not need to be affected by world prices.

The proportion that we import definitely will be, but that is only part of the mix.

The overall result should be that we are partially affected by world prices, to the degree that we import.

The actual result is that the UK suppliers bang their prices up to world prices and keep a massive windfall profit, all taken from the public who have no choice in the matter.

Evan3020

You do have a choice, you can go and live in the Utopia that you believe exists elsewhere.

[Deleted User]

wittynamegoeshere said:

Awww poor Shell.  Do they have a Just Giving page, I feel really sorry for them.

Do you actually believe this nonsense?

Gas comes out of a hole in the ground, for close to nothing.  Their retail division sells it at a massive price to the mug public.  They have the ability to adjust the transfer price between their different divisions so they can make any part of it make a profit or a loss.  It makes good PR if they can make it appear that the division you pay your bill to is not making tons of profit.  Unsurprisingly this is what they do, and some fall for it.

Is it your mission to attack posters rather than the information that is posted? If you genuinely believe that the extraction of gas; oil and coal costs ‘close to nothing’ then why have so many UK energy suppliers gone to the wall? 

As others have tried to point out, the cost of energy moves as the ratio of demand and supply changes. At the moment, there is high demand and a shortage of supply which could lead to UK energy cuts this coming Winter. Those that have the oil choose not to supply it. Russia for political reasons and the Middle East because wells etc are still shut down. That said, why drill for 100 barrels when 50 barrels will provide the same level of profit?

Seriously, if you have the solution to our present energy crisis then I am sure that the two candidates for PM and forum members would be interested to hear it.