Elderly relative, no ID, hassle from energy company and others

elsien

Hairyboff said:

Keep_pedalling said:

I would strongly suggest she sets up LPAs for both finance and welfare, not only to help with the current situation but in case she looses mental capacity in the future.

We woud do this but they are fully compos mentis and not in need at this stage - personally, I would agree from a future-proofing perspective. However this would reduce their independence, which my partner and I are reluctant to do.

When they are fully compos mentis and don't need it is exactly the right time to do it because there are no crystal balls to warn of imminent unexpected illnesses or accidents. And because once they start to lose capacity (if they ever do) then it's too late.
It will not reduce their independence because either it only kicks in when they lose capacity; or if set up to be active when they still have capacity you can only do things with their specific consent and when they ask you to. Used properly it would help them to maintain their independence for longer. 

ETA - my grandmother was the same. Building society with counter cheques and nothing else. Wouldn't even have a cheque book or current account. My grandmother resolved it when she lost her mobility by asking her LPA to take over some of her banking when she couldn't get to the BS herself. He brought her cash and she still paid the milkman, the decorator etc. in cash as she had always done.

If your relative's utility provider does still accept cheques she could make a formal complaint about the letters she is getting? If they don't, then as I said she's back to plan B which is looking at what they will accept. 

Keep_pedalling

Hairyboff said:

Keep_pedalling said:

I would strongly suggest she sets up LPAs for both finance and welfare, not only to help with the current situation but in case she looses mental capacity in the future.

We woud do this but they are fully compos mentis and not in need at this stage - personally, I would agree from a future-proofing perspective. However this would reduce their independence, which my partner and I are reluctant to do.

You do know that a LPA can only be set up by a person with all their mental faculties? By the time someone looses it through accident or illness it is to late and you would have to apply for deputyship though the courts which is expensive and long winded.

Really all adults should have them in place as no one knows when fate might strike. We have had ours in place for around 8 years now. Never needed to use them but if they were our children can step in to manage our affairs if nessasary.

macman

The very simple solution is (with their agreement) just to set up a DD on the account using your own bank details, and ask your elderly relative to repay you by cheque. You can monitor the bills online. The supplier doesn't care who pays the actual bills.
My mother refused to use DD for years, but once I persuaded her to allow it on one utility account, she was quite happy for me to set it up on all the others.

lr1277

POA does not allow you to open new accounts. That has to be done by the donor. Also my parents used a solicitor to setup the POA. Photo-ID was required for the solicitor and possibly the POA document. I don’t know what ID is required to setup POA on the government’s website.

Thinking through your problem, there are 2 issues, assuming you want to open a new bank account:
Proving your relative is who they say they are
Getting a photo.

There is a way forward, but it might be expensive and you might have to help them out a lot including keeping an eye on their banking affairs using your own internet connection and a 3rd party mandate.

The following may not work.

The bank Cater Allen require applications to include a referral from a regulated professional. They are a subsidiary of Santander and provide full banking services. Their costs are not onerous or weren’t when I last looked.
If your relative can prove their identity to a regulated professional, then an application can be sent to Cater Allen. The advantage here is that the regulated professional can visit the house and satisfy themselves of your relative’s identity. There will be a cost in getting said professional to your house.
By regulated professional Cater Allen means lawyer, accountant or IFA. The advantage of this approach to Cater Allen is that they do not need to perform the identity check as it has been done for them.

I suggest this approach because my dad needed a POA document witnessed by a lawyer before being sent to a foreign government. This was during lockdown and my dad was housebound.
None of the high street lawyers had their offices open, so we’re not contactable. So I contacted a local one man band lawyer, whose specialty was immigration, but he was a lawyer nonetheless.  He came to the house, dad was sitting in the doorway and the lawyer was outside. We handed dad’s passport to the lawyer so he could confirm identity. Then dad signed the document in front of him. The lawyer countersigned and stamped the document. I think the lawyer charged £50 for that home visit, counter signature and stamp.

When I took on my accountant I visited their office for the first meeting to prove my identity. However the accountant did say they would do a home visit if required.

If you choose this approach can your relative prove their identity to a regulated professional? 

A 2nd thought. When applying for a passport, you need to get somebody in the community with standing to sign the back of the passport. You could get the GP to do this. But then how do you get a passport photo, unless you have one already?

Perhaps you could take a photo on your phone of your relative and print it out. The GP could sign this. This MIGHT be enough proof to the regulated professional that your relative is who they say they are. Don’t know, you would need to check. 

Dad’s GP surgery would only talk to the patient. To get around this, we sent a letter to the surgery saying any member of surgery staff could talk to me, my mum or my brother about my dad. My dad signed this letter and it has worked well ever since.

Sorry if I have made mountains out of molehills. Hope you find a solution to your relative’s situation.

elsien

They don’t need to open a new account because the relative has an account they can pay direct debits from. The issue is that they are preferring not to. 

We did parent’s LPA online. No photo ID required. 

Keep_pedalling

lr1277 said:

POA does not allow you to open new accounts. That has to be done by the donor. Also my parents used a solicitor to setup the POA. Photo-ID was required for the solicitor and possibly the POA document. I don’t know what ID is required to setup POA on the government’s website.

Thinking through your problem, there are 2 issues, assuming you want to open a new bank account:
Proving your relative is who they say they are
Getting a photo.

There is a way forward, but it might be expensive and you might have to help them out a lot including keeping an eye on their banking affairs using your own internet connection and a 3rd party mandate.

The following may not work.

The bank Cater Allen require applications to include a referral from a regulated professional. They are a subsidiary of Santander and provide full banking services. Their costs are not onerous or weren’t when I last looked.
If your relative can prove their identity to a regulated professional, then an application can be sent to Cater Allen. The advantage here is that the regulated professional can visit the house and satisfy themselves of your relative’s identity. There will be a cost in getting said professional to your house.
By regulated professional Cater Allen means lawyer, accountant or IFA. The advantage of this approach to Cater Allen is that they do not need to perform the identity check as it has been done for them.

I suggest this approach because my dad needed a POA document witnessed by a lawyer before being sent to a foreign government. This was during lockdown and my dad was housebound.
None of the high street lawyers had their offices open, so we’re not contactable. So I contacted a local one man band lawyer, whose specialty was immigration, but he was a lawyer nonetheless.  He came to the house, dad was sitting in the doorway and the lawyer was outside. We handed dad’s passport to the lawyer so he could confirm identity. Then dad signed the document in front of him. The lawyer countersigned and stamped the document. I think the lawyer charged £50 for that home visit, counter signature and stamp.

When I took on my accountant I visited their office for the first meeting to prove my identity. However the accountant did say they would do a home visit if required.

If you choose this approach can your relative prove their identity to a regulated professional? 

A 2nd thought. When applying for a passport, you need to get somebody in the community with standing to sign the back of the passport. You could get the GP to do this. But then how do you get a passport photo, unless you have one already?

Perhaps you could take a photo on your phone of your relative and print it out. The GP could sign this. This MIGHT be enough proof to the regulated professional that your relative is who they say they are. Don’t know, you would need to check. 

Dad’s GP surgery would only talk to the patient. To get around this, we sent a letter to the surgery saying any member of surgery staff could talk to me, my mum or my brother about my dad. My dad signed this letter and it has worked well ever since.

Sorry if I have made mountains out of molehills. Hope you find a solution to your relative’s situation.

It is not true that only the donor can set up a new account if you have a LPA. Attorneys have to do things like sell the the donors house to pay for care, which would be very difficult to do without the ability to set up suitable accounts to handle such large sums of money.

https://www.hsbc.co.uk/help/life-events/poa/what-an-attorney-can-do/

No form of ID is required from the donor, attorneys or certificate provider when applying for LPAs, just the signatures and witness signatures.

74jax

Hairyboff said:

Keep_pedalling said:

I would strongly suggest she sets up LPAs for both finance and welfare, not only to help with the current situation but in case she looses mental capacity in the future.

We woud do this but they are fully compos mentis and not in need at this stage - personally, I would agree from a future-proofing perspective. However this would reduce their independence, which my partner and I are reluctant to do.

I'm not sure I understand this comment, when else would you set it up, you have described the exact time that you do set up PoA? 
I'm in my 40s and set mine up, no independence lost, in fact nothing has changed? 
It's no good getting to the stage where you need to step in, but capacity is lost. 

RAS

Hairyboff said:

Keep_pedalling said:

I would strongly suggest she sets up LPAs for both finance and welfare, not only to help with the current situation but in case she looses mental capacity in the future.

We woud do this but they are fully compos mentis and not in need at this stage - personally, I would agree from a future-proofing perspective. However this would reduce their independence, which my partner and I are reluctant to do.

Again..................

The only way to set up an LPA is whilst your relative is fully compos mentis. This was even true when is was the old Enduring Power of Attorney.

Once the relative is no longer compos mentis, they can't set up an LPA.

It's important to distinguish between setting up an LPA, registering one and using it.

RAS

And have you considered applying for a disabled parking ticket for your relative, so that you can take them out occasionally and use the relevant parking?

pollypenny

Since D/Ds usually give 10% off the electricity bill that might be a way to persuade your relative to use them - especially with the projected rises.