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ESA to UC query/ potential PIP backpayment maybe causing deductions.

edited 5 August at 11:54PM in Benefits & tax credits
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Ihatethinkingofusernames11Ihatethinkingofusernames11 Forumite
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edited 5 August at 11:54PM in Benefits & tax credits
Hello I am posting another question I can't remember and may have asked a similar question before bad memory.

I have been considering going from income related ESA to UC as I would be better off by £100 a month whilst also making a PIP claim starting in March.
I am awaiting a decision on a paper based assessment or at least based on what my keyworker told PIP.

I am below £6000 atm but if PIP is awarded and backdated then I (may)go over 6k. It isn't the worst problem to have I suppose but the scale of deductions is very harsh.

I wanted to ask about the (grace?) period or 52 weeks that may mean lump sums like backdated PIP won't count towards deductions for 52 weeks and when this period starts? Is that correct?
Is it 52 weeks from the PIP claim start date (March) or if/when it is awarded?

In which case maybe people will say it doesn't matter whether I switch to UC before or after? But for me it does.

Sorry about the wording of this next part but here is what bothers me:-

My thinking is though if I did go over 6k (if I got PIP) and later switched to UC from ESA then I'd have to declare I had over 6k vs if I switch now my then only needs to be my current balance.

What makes me uncomfortable is that I think UC may check up more if they know it is over 6k/thereabouts.
I'm don't like thinking I'd be a target and them hawkeyeing my balance after 52 wks and being afraid to spend it if I do get PIP.

As I got a text and awaiting decision I made need to act fast but I assume it wouldnt count as income during UC assessment period?

Sorry if I have asked similar questions before. I should have asked the citizens advice lady when I spoke to her as she waa checking my PIP claim status.

I told her some things my keyworker told PIP that I was worried about and she agreed with me and shocked/surprised so may have lost easy points potentially.

Anxiety has stopped me switching but may well cause more anxiety. I'm in a bad wave of benzo withdrawal not sleeping again, unable to go out.i thought it was going but no.
Thanks
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  • edited 5 August at 11:59PM
    poppy12345poppy12345 Forumite
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    edited 5 August at 11:59PM
    Backdated money is disregarded for 1 year so it doesn't affect any means tested benefits. During that year you can spend the money on anything you want to and there will be no checks done for that.


    As I got a text and awaiting decision I made need to act fast but I assume it wouldnt count as income during UC assessment period?


    It's not classed as income and won't affect your UC. Lump sums are savings but for this case it's disregarded, as advised above.
  • edited 6 August at 9:40PM
    Spoonie_TurtleSpoonie_Turtle Forumite
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    edited 6 August at 9:40PM
    Further to poppy's comment, if PIP backpay is over £5,000 then it's disregarded indefinitely.  (That may not be relevant to you though, depending on how long your claim has taken.) I misunderstood the info that made me think that, my apologies.


    What makes me uncomfortable is that I think UC may check up more if they know it is over 6k/thereabouts.
    I'm don't like thinking I'd be a target and them hawkeyeing my balance after 52 wks and being afraid to spend it if I do get PIP.
    poppy's right, they don't check up at all.  I was awarded PIP whilst claiming UC, my backpay was under £5,000 so it was disregarded for a year.  I sent a message when the lump sum went into my bank, to let them know what it was in case it was flagged up.  Not once did they ever check up on my savings, not even after the year had ended.  I had initially intended to send a message once the year was up to say I'd spent X amount so my savings were now Y, but as they were under £6,000 after spending some of it I decided not to bother and have had no contact from them at all in the 9 months since.

    It probably helps being in the Support Group / having LCWRA, we're just left alone.
  • Ihatethinkingofusernames11Ihatethinkingofusernames11 Forumite
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    Hello thanks so much to both of you. You are excellent.

    So say I was filling the form in online would it not need to be declared then if disregarded for a year as it isn't income, or is it better safe to declare in a message?

    I just know if/ when I feel fit enough to eventually change from ESA to UC there will be a form with a box to fill in the amount of savings.

    Say for example theoretically if I 4000 now and backdated 2500 totalling 6500 what would I write in the savings box?

    4000 or 6500? Then would I just have to send message somehow that 2500 is backdated and does not count for 1 year?

    Or do I just not need to declare it at all?

    I'm worrying I've over nothing basically then and hasn't even happened yet?!

    I am relieved to know that they may not check up on spending. I do feel it's disproportionate the amount they can take for just over 6000 on savings and keeps people poor.

    Also I'm glad you said they leave you alone in that group I should be put in LCWRA group automatically hopefully, although I have heard I there may be a delay and I'd be on basic rate of UC for a little while until they have determined LCWRA.

    Unsure what is true and maybe it was due to the claimant being new and not switching.

    Thanks for taking the time to reply to me.
  • poppy12345poppy12345 Forumite
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    Further to poppy's comment, if PIP backpay is over £5,000 then it's disregarded indefinitely.  (That may not be relevant to you though, depending on how long your claim has taken.)



    That wouldn't apply in this case. A disaregard for the life of the claim only applies to offical errors, so for example the error of those that transferred from IB to ESA and didn't have the Income Related top up, when they should have.


    So say I was filling the form in online would it not need to be declared then if disregarded for a year as it isn't income, or is it better safe to declare in a message?



    You wouldn't declare the money from your PIP award because it's disregarded. Just keep the award letter as proof. Your PIP award won't ever be classed as income because it's not means tested. It would be classed as savings.
  • nannytone_2nannytone_2 Forumite
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    Hold off claiming uc, because if awarded dauky kiting pip, you may be entitles to the SDP, which is worth more than the higher uc amount
  • edited 6 August at 11:25AM
    calcotticalcotti Forumite
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    edited 6 August at 11:25AM
    Hold off claiming uc, because if awarded dauky kiting pip, you may be entitles to the SDP, which is worth more than the higher uc amount
    According to OPs previous thread
    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6371884/moving-from-esa-to-uc-has-anyone-any-first-hand-experience-moving-is-it-worth-it-100-p-m-more#latest
    they will not qualify for SDP because they live with brother and brother who do not qualify for disability benefits. (Confusing incomple information in current thread.)
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Some rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • Spoonie_TurtleSpoonie_Turtle Forumite
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    Further to poppy's comment, if PIP backpay is over £5,000 then it's disregarded indefinitely.  (That may not be relevant to you though, depending on how long your claim has taken.)



    That wouldn't apply in this case. A disaregard for the life of the claim only applies to offical errors, so for example the error of those that transferred from IB to ESA and didn't have the Income Related top up, when they should have.
    Thank you for the correction, I must have totally misunderstood.  I don't want to derail the thread, sorry, but do want to understand this.  Is that what this part means re: payments of over £5,000?

    3. the period of entitlement to benefit or AFIP to which the payment of arrears or compensation relates, begins before the first day on which the abolition of existing benefits comes into force

    (para H2092  https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1085956/admh2.pdf) 
  • poppy12345poppy12345 Forumite
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    Further to poppy's comment, if PIP backpay is over £5,000 then it's disregarded indefinitely.  (That may not be relevant to you though, depending on how long your claim has taken.)



    That wouldn't apply in this case. A disaregard for the life of the claim only applies to offical errors, so for example the error of those that transferred from IB to ESA and didn't have the Income Related top up, when they should have.
    Thank you for the correction, I must have totally misunderstood.  I don't want to derail the thread, sorry, but do want to understand this.  Is that what this part means re: payments of over £5,000?

    3. the period of entitlement to benefit or AFIP to which the payment of arrears or compensation relates, begins before the first day on which the abolition of existing benefits comes into force

    (para H2092  https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1085956/admh2.pdf) 
    That link doesn't work for me.

  • Spoonie_TurtleSpoonie_Turtle Forumite
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    Further to poppy's comment, if PIP backpay is over £5,000 then it's disregarded indefinitely.  (That may not be relevant to you though, depending on how long your claim has taken.)



    That wouldn't apply in this case. A disaregard for the life of the claim only applies to offical errors, so for example the error of those that transferred from IB to ESA and didn't have the Income Related top up, when they should have.
    Thank you for the correction, I must have totally misunderstood.  I don't want to derail the thread, sorry, but do want to understand this.  Is that what this part means re: payments of over £5,000?

    3. the period of entitlement to benefit or AFIP to which the payment of arrears or compensation relates, begins before the first day on which the abolition of existing benefits comes into force

    (para H2092  https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1085956/admh2.pdf) 
    That link doesn't work for me.

    Straight from the website yet it doesn't work for me either, how odd. 
    Wonder if Google does any better

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1085956/admh2.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjRj9-ov7L5AhUjQ0EAHfFGD8sQFnoECBQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1EDLOIIdE5p81om-mL-Vwa
  • Spoonie_TurtleSpoonie_Turtle Forumite
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    Further to poppy's comment, if PIP backpay is over £5,000 then it's disregarded indefinitely.  (That may not be relevant to you though, depending on how long your claim has taken.)



    That wouldn't apply in this case. A disaregard for the life of the claim only applies to offical errors, so for example the error of those that transferred from IB to ESA and didn't have the Income Related top up, when they should have.
    Thank you for the correction, I must have totally misunderstood.  I don't want to derail the thread, sorry, but do want to understand this.  Is that what this part means re: payments of over £5,000?

    3. the period of entitlement to benefit or AFIP to which the payment of arrears or compensation relates, begins before the first day on which the abolition of existing benefits comes into force

    (para H2092  https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1085956/admh2.pdf) 
    That link doesn't work for me.

    Oh so it doesn't, sorry - how odd, it was straight from the website.


    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1085956/admh2.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjRj9-ov7L5AhUjQ0EAHfFGD8sQFnoECBQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1EDLOIIdE5p81om-mL-Vwa
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