House Refurb - Is it cheaper to use 1 builder or multiple?

akorn77

I'm undertaking a full house refurbishment in London on a 3 bed terraced house which is 88msq. The works will include: re-plastering walls, re-wire, new plumbing and central heating, all flooring, kitchen, bathroom, small downstairs extension refurb (WC & utility room) and possibly a new roof. 

I got two firm quotes so far for the internal works (excluding roof and fixtures/fittings). One came in super cheap at £35k (too good to be true) and one came in very high at £70k. I have a 3rd builder who gave me an estimate, which also came in stupidly high at £75k. 

I keep getting told how using 1 builder will make everything cheaper, but I'm starting to think doing everything sperately might work out cheaper? As far as house refurbishments go, a bog standard terraced house is as bread n butter as they come and the prices their quoting seem like utter madness to me. It feels to me like the Builders are taking a massive cut/commission for themselves and I feel like I could do it cheaper doing everything individually myself. 

For example, I know someone who picked up cheap labourers from in front of DIY stores and got them to strip the whole house, hired a skip himself and got that initial part done alot cheaper than a builder would have charged...

Doozergirl

If you are employing someone to employ other trades and take full responsibility for the quality of workmanship and materials they also need to eat.  So yes, it will be more expensive than employing people separately yourself and taking the role of project manager.  

However, your own time costs time, if not cash, and a lack of experience will cost something as well because mistakes will be made.   Just like I probably can't do your job easily, you couldn't do mine easily.  

Picking up subbies in front of DIY stores is a new one on me.  What on earth happened to due diligence?  

The price of building work has exploded because materials have exploded and subcontractor day rates have risen because of a desperate shortage of labour, what with Brexit and an ageing workforce.  The fact that you have two very similar prices suggests that's where the true price is, not in massive 'commissions' as you call it.  Does anyone in anything other than sales refer to their own hard work as 'commission'? 

If you want to take on your own project then that's brilliant, but don't underestimate the scale of the task.  You can certainly save on ripping everything out if you're going to take that on yourself.  

Gavin83

The more you do yourself the cheaper it’ll be. However it’ll take longer and probably won’t get done to the same standard and you’ll make more mistakes. 

There’s the whole theory of 3 elements, cost, quality and time. You can have 2 of those but not all 3. Pick which are important to you.

Cutting out the builder and taking on the project management elements yourself will save you money, although no where near as much as you likely think. You’ll also considerably increase the time it’ll take to complete and you’re far more likely to get dicked around.

Ultimately it’s your choice anyway. Continue to shop around, accept the cheap quote along with the risks that comes with or take on more elements of the work yourself.

FreeBear

Gavin83 said: The more you do yourself the cheaper it’ll be. However it’ll take longer and probably won’t get done to the same standard and you’ll make more mistakes.

Seven years in on my project home, and it still isn't complete. There are going to be a couple of places I'll have to revisit to do some remedial work - The doors on the kitchen units are not lasting as well as I would like, so new ones on the cards within the next three years (subject to funds).

To be honest, £70-75K doesn't sound too far off the mark for London for a complete gut & renovate. One comment to make - If you are knocking the plaster off the (external) walls and/or taking down ceilings, Building Regulations kick in. There will be a requirement to improve the thermal performance of the walls (or ceilings). Even if it is only a skim coat going on the walls, you really should look at adding insulation (and don't forget to plug any draughts in the process).

akorn77

Gavin83 said:

The more you do yourself the cheaper it’ll be. However it’ll take longer and probably won’t get done to the same standard and you’ll make more mistakes. 

There’s the whole theory of 3 elements, cost, quality and time. You can have 2 of those but not all 3. Pick which are important to you.

Cutting out the builder and taking on the project management elements yourself will save you money, although no where near as much as you likely think. You’ll also considerably increase the time it’ll take to complete and you’re far more likely to get dicked around.

Ultimately it’s your choice anyway. Continue to shop around, accept the cheap quote along with the risks that comes with or take on more elements of the work yourself.

The reason I think it could work is because regardless of whether I use a builder or not, I'll have to use third parties for many parts of the project i.e. kitchen, bathroom, flooring, windows will all be bought seperately and companies often provide fitting so thats all of that solved. 

Aside from that need some cheap labourers to strip the home. My cousin is an electrician so he will do that cheap for me. Just need to find a plumber and plasterer and thats literally it. 

Is there anything I'm missing here? 

Doozergirl

Yes, using companies that fit for you is a bit  like using one builder to oversee but with the added hassle of trying to tie them all together.  They don't care what's next or what should have gone in before.  

Plus those companies have overheads like advertising, showroom premises, sales staff etc that builders do not have.    They're usually more expensive and you can never choose the quality of your fitter because they've got hundreds of subcontractors.  

I had a friend working for Wren and a quote for a plastic kitchen from them cost double that of a painted one from Howdens and using a specialist worktop supplier with a much better range.  Recently had a customer use Tapi carpets and the quality was shocking for the price she paid.  

What you're describing definitely is not a way to save money.  

Section62

Doozergirl said:

Picking up subbies in front of DIY stores is a new one on me.  What on earth happened to due diligence?  

 

Sadly there's places in London where it is the norm for low-end builders to operate this way... the social issues around it got so bad in Honeypot Lane it briefly became a media story in 2014.  There's other locations in Enfield and Haringey where those in the know can find day workers with no questions asked.

Also yes, when it comes to due diligence it can be a huge issue - no paperwork/no questions.  You can do your research and find a 'builder' who ticks all the boxes, then discover the people actually coming into your home to do the work have no more connection to the builder than he met them outside a cafe that morning.

IIRC the Honeypot Lane issues died down because HMRC and Immigration started turning up on a regular basis to join the fun - also doing random stops on local roads to check for red diesel.  After that I believe the pickup locations became more dispersed.

plumb1_2

It’s not just a case of finding tradesmen, they have to reliable to. What’s gonna happen when the plumber turns up to install the rads and 2 walls have not been skimmed. He’s gonna want paying for a return visit. or the plumber is booked in for next week but the plasterer decided to go away for a few days. Thus delaying the plumber, your gonna end up at the back of the que.
Lots of different things can happen, so be prepared for issues cropping up.
A project manager/ main contractor would have to deal with the stress.
Dont believe all these Diy shows on the telly.