Financial planning - what happens to bank account when...

stevat

Hello all,

currently doing a bit of financial planning and have a few questions around the practicalities of what happens to a bank account when a spouse dies. I did a quick search in the forum, but wasn't able to find clear answers, so hopefully someone can give me a few pointers, or even answers. Apologies for the grim nature of these questions...

So, the scenario I'm looking at is this: married couple, no children, no will, no debts, no assets apart from money in the bank. Both foreign nationals, married abroad in their home country (so no UK official record of marriage).

If I understand the rules of intestacy correctly, all the assets of one spouse will go to the surviving spouse. And if the only assets is money in the bank, how does this get dealt with in practice?

1. How does the bank(s) need to be notified about the death? Is there an "official" way to do this? Maybe something like this?
2. I'm assumming that a death certificate will be required in any case? How does one obtain such a document usually?
3. And if the death has taken place abroad, would this need to be translated I presume? Would the translation need to be official, i.e. apostile'd?
4. Does money in any joint accounts automatically belong to the surviving spouse? Or is it not that simple?
5. How can the surviving spouse get ownership of any money in non-joint accounts? Just walk into the bank, say "my spouse had passed away and can I have the money please"? Would they need to prove the relationship (i.e. marriage) to the bank somehow, so that the bank can apply the intestacy rules and transfer the money to them?
6. Would a translated marriage certificate suffice for the above? Again, need to be apostile'd? And maybe it needs to have been issued recently by the relevant authority abroad?
7. Or is the whole thing not so simple? Would it need to go to probate, use an executor etc? My understanding is that it should be a straightforward case if there are no other assets (apart from money), no debt, no children, no will. But it sounds a bit too easy maybe, hence my asking here about how it'd work in practice.
8. I'm assumming that the owning of a house as joint tenants would not complicate the whole processs, i.e. the transfer of any money in bank accounts to the surving spouse?

Thanks for reading!

Savvy_Sue

I think you could do worse than look at a basic guide such as https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/death-and-wills/what-to-do-after-a-death

You may well need to demonstrate that the marriage is valid, but it doesn't need to be registered or validated in the UK as such. 

I would definitely want to have a translated marriage certificate myself, but I don't know what form of certification would be necessary, you might need to get it from the country where the marriage took place, OR there might be translators in the UK whose work is officially recognised. 

Your questions:

1. Banks will want to see a death certificate. You can write, or go into branch. A phone call asking for their bereavement department should get you information about what to do reasonably painlessly.
   
   
2. Yes, a death certificate is a pretty essential piece of paper after a death. Without it, you can't arrange a funeral, for starters, or 'prove' that the person has died. The way you obtain it has changed in recent years (thanks to Covid), but it involves contact with the Registrar of Births, Deaths and Marriages, ideally for the area in which the person died. You'll be given information by the personal who certifies the death. 
   
   
3. I would assume that a foreign death certificate would need to be properly translated, as above. 
   
   
4. Under the laws of intestacy, any joint accounts pass to the survivor, regardless of whether you're married or not. I've always found that a seamless process. 
   
   
5. Depends on how much is in the account, and what rules that bank has for how much can be transferred without obtaining probate or letters of administration. For some banks it's £50K, for others it's much less. And you'd have to demonstrate that they were the 'right' person to receive that money. 
   
   
6. That's going to depend on the bank, and their requirements. 
   
   
7. As 6.
   
   
8. If you own a property as joint tenants, then on the first death, the whole property passes to the other owner. (It can be more complicated if you are tenants in common, so do make sure you know which you are.)

There is a way of making this much simpler: write a will, clearly naming and identifying your spouse. Leave everything to them, name them as executor. The formalities become much simpler. HOWEVER, have you given thought to what you'll do on the second death? Also, are all assets for each of you in the UK? If not, you may need a will here, and a will there ... 

Keep_pedalling

They really should prioritise making wills. What do they want to happen to their assets if the both died together? They should also make lasting powers of attorney in case one of them looses their mental capacity through accident or illness.

SeniorSam

If you are both killed in an accident, do you want the State to have all the assets? If not, Make a Will.

BooJewels

Keep_pedalling said:

They should also make lasting powers of attorney in case one of them looses their mental capacity through accident or illness.

An LPA isn't only useful if you lose mental capacity - the Health and Welfare one can only be used when the Donor loses capacity to make decisions for themselves.  But the Property and Finance LPA - if set up without such restrictions - can be used at any time the Donor might need assistance.  

stevat

Hey all, thank you so much for taking the time to reply - much appreciated

It looks like it's a good idea then to make sure we both have appropriate wills, naming each other as the executor. And also include provision of that happens in case e.g. both of us get killed in an accident (in which case we'd want all of our UK-based assets to go to family abroad). If that happens (and the wills name each other as the executor), who then becomes executor? I think I need to do a bit of reading on this.

I was under the impression that the lack of will might make the formalities that the surviving partner has to go through a bit easier, especially if the only assets are money in the bank (especially if majority is in joint accounts), a house where we'd be joint tenants and no debts to worry about. But it looks like the existence of a will might be the route that makes formalities easier to deal with. The goal at this point is to make the surviving spouse has to deal with as little as possible in the event of the other spouse's death.

BooJewels

stevat said:

I was under the impression that the lack of will might make the formalities that the surviving partner has to go through a bit easier, especially if the only assets are money in the bank (especially if majority is in joint accounts), a house where we'd be joint tenants and no debts to worry about. But it looks like the existence of a will might be the route that makes formalities easier to deal with. The goal at this point is to make the surviving spouse has to deal with as little as possible in the event of the other spouse's death.

Whilst it might well end up straightforward for your circumstances, without a will in place - the time when such things really come into their own and earn their keep, is when things aren't straightforward - those little 'what if' scenarios - like you both dying at the same time or in close proximity.  A suitably experienced solicitor will be able to ask the right questions to ensure lots of eventualities you hadn't considered are covered.  Wills largely make it easier for those left behind, by taking any speculation out of what you would have wanted and ensuring that your wishes are honoured.  It's quite a cheap way to buy peace of mind.

For example, my husband passed away last year and whilst it probably would have been straightforward enough without a will, as everything was in joint names, I was asked to produce it a couple of times for pensions and a family member on his side is now seemingly having thoughts about whether or not I truly have a right to keep certain things and have asked several vague questions recently like 'did he have a will', 'what did his will say about is possessions' and 'what happened to x that I bought him' etc. etc.  So I'm glad that I have his will that explicitly states that everything came to me, apart from a couple of specific material bequests.  I think this particular person is winding up towards asking for possessions back that they paid for/gifts given etc, so I'm glad that I have that paperwork to defend that particular situation - should it develop further.  

Savvy_Sue

stevat said:

It looks like it's a good idea then to make sure we both have appropriate wills, naming each other as the executor. And also include provision of that happens in case e.g. both of us get killed in an accident (in which case we'd want all of our UK-based assets to go to family abroad). If that happens (and the wills name each other as the executor), who then becomes executor? I think I need to do a bit of reading on this.

I'd strongly advise a bit of reading, and going to a solicitor to make your wills once you've got your head round what you want to happen. This is also important, because they would be able to confirm whether your non-UK marriage documentation is adequate, or what attention you need to give to it. 

stevat said:

I was under the impression that the lack of will might make the formalities that the surviving partner has to go through a bit easier, especially if the only assets are money in the bank (especially if majority is in joint accounts), a house where we'd be joint tenants and no debts to worry about. But it looks like the existence of a will might be the route that makes formalities easier to deal with. The goal at this point is to make the surviving spouse has to deal with as little as possible in the event of the other spouse's death.

The lack of a will may make little practical difference if the couple are legally married. BooJewels gives examples of when it can be asked for and found useful, even if married. 

However, if a couple is NOT married, however long they've lived together, however long they've shared their finances, however many children they've had, then the law of intestacy has to be applied. And that causes untold grief and difficulty when people don't realise that. 

Now, I don't doubt that you ARE married, but I don't know how easy you would find proving this - I'd imagine a marriage certificate in most European languages wouldn't cause too many issues, because the names would be easy to decipher. However, if it's in a non European script, then getting it translated and certified and kept with the wills you're about to write would be a very sensible step, IMO. 

Froglet

Can you get married in this country as well,to make at least that situation water tight ?

Savvy_Sue

Froglet said:

Can you get married in this country as well,to make at least that situation water tight ?

I'm not at all sure you can, you know ... 

We had this thread recently: sadly the original post has been changed to make it unrecognisable, but the summary is that a couple had arranged to marry in the UK, and someone had claimed that one of them was already married, because of a ceremony they had gone through abroad. The OP asserted that it was not, in fact, a legal marriage which had taken place abroad. 

If the OP here gave us a clue about the country or continent where they married, we might be better able to comment on the likelihood of it being a legal marriage. But personally I'd always have wanted the security of a translated marriage certificate if I wasn't living in the country where I married, and that is where I'd probably start in their position. If they are married, there is less pressure to make a will (although that's still highly recommended, especially for the second death). 

stevat

BooJewels said:
Whilst it might well end up straightforward for your circumstances, without a will in place - the time when such things really come into their own and earn their keep, is when things aren't straightforward - those little 'what if' scenarios...

Hey @BooJewels, first of all, my condolences for your loss.

Your comment is actually a very good example of why sometimes it's best to go the extra mile in getting things properly done & written down, as you never know how things can turn out. Even if we think now that our case is straightforward, we can't be 100% of what the future holds.