Supplier refusing to release Direct Debit calculation

MisterCee72

Dolor said:

Worth a read. I am sure that all suppliers use similar methods but with less technical expertise than Octopus with its Kraken Technologies’ platform.

https://octopus.energy/blog/direct-debit-payments/

Solid post and a helpful read Dolor, thank you.

If British Gas were to follow the top of this paragraph from Octopus, then we’d be able to have the next part of the dialogue with them….

How do you calculate my DD payments?

When you join us, we take the unit rate of the energy tariff you have with us, and multiply it by how much energy we expect you to use over a year.

Certainly feels like our next stop will be Octopus, if/when the price cap levels off or better.

Should also declare that we are ex-SOLR, having arrived with British Gas in Oct 2021, but they’ve had actual reads along the way since joining (both smart meter and provided by us, which gets them all of our cold weather usage) and they haven’t suggested that being ex-SOLR has hampered their estimating of our annual energy usage.

[Deleted User]

MisterCee72 said:

Getting a lot of waffle from them about algorithms rather than simple maths based on estimated annual consumption in kWh for both gas and electricity.

Hi,

perhaps actual previous usage would help.

MisterCee72

frugalmacdugal said:

MisterCee72 said:

Getting a lot of waffle from them about algorithms rather than simple maths based on estimated annual consumption in kWh for both gas and electricity.

Hi,

perhaps actual previous usage would help.

I agree and can’t understand why British Gas haven’t fully utilised what they have on that front.

Still curious as to why they are so sensitive about releasing what kWh they did base it on when the plan was set up in May.

[Deleted User]

Hi,

may be factoring in future cap increases, Oct/Jan/ ???.

Why not keep DD and go on to variable, though keep money aside for higher bills over winter.

MisterCee72

frugalmacdugal said:

Hi,

may be factoring in future cap increases, Oct/Jan/ ???.

Why not keep DD and go on to variable, though keep money aside for higher bills over winter.

Hello!

Definitely not averse to them telling us that future price rises are built in but they haven’t mentioned anything about that so far in the dialogue.

We left the SOLR transfer tariff/plan at the end of April and went onto their Standard Variable tariff at the start of May, with fixed monthly direct debit, which is where the wonky maths began.

The associated complaint has a target resolution date of Tuesday (2nd) and I’ll definitely let people know in this thread how that pans out.

Mainly curious if anyone has achieved what we’re after, with the explicit confirmation by British Gas of the kWh used in a direct debit plan?

Astria

MisterCee72 said:

Mainly curious if anyone has achieved what we’re after, with the explicit confirmation by British Gas of the kWh used in a direct debit plan?

I've never got a supplier to state exactly how they've reached the expected amount of kWh used over a year. I'm with Sainsburys now, switched to variable a while ago, so tell them how much I've used each month then they send me an email 7 days before the DD is due with the amount they are taking. My billing account is with Santander, so I get interest and cashback too. Far better than a fixed DD.

brewerdave

Re BG - prior to yesterday there was a forecast surplus on my electricity plan at end date. I put in new reads that showed that my usage had declined AND YET without producing a bill, BG have decided that I will now be in debit at plan end and I should increase my DD by another ~£12pm - I don't think so !!
Previously I've failed to get an explanation of this forecast plan end credit/debit - on Chat ,they couldn't even give me the date !!!
My suspicion is that they are building in higher Winter usage even tho my elec. usage is relatively even all year.

wild666

MisterCee72 said:

Wondering whether anyone has had better luck than us with British Gas, who are actively refusing to release the kWh that they have used in calculating our dual fuel monthly direct amount?

Getting a lot of waffle from them about algorithms rather than simple maths based on estimated annual consumption in kWh for both gas and electricity.

SLC 27.14 seems to suggest that they are required to release the basis for the calculation.

Additionally, are any of the other suppliers similar, or even perhaps more helpful, for customers who simply want greater detail to ensure that they have landed on a fair direct debit calculation?

Thanks, C

If you know the price per kWh for gas and electric and your yearly usage then work out the calculations yourself. For example the gas SC is 27.22p per day, £99.35 yearly, also work out your electric SC by multiplying the daily SC by 365. Then if you have a years bills to hand take the readings from the bills and multiply them by your present price per kWh this should give you an estimate of your yearly usage for electric and gas.

This way you can tell if they are charging too high or too low a DD. Factor in that come October the increase is going up by up to 77%, £3500 between October and Dec. Then in Jan 2023 and up to an estimated £3800. 

If the supplier is working out bills minus the 5% VAT then add 5% to the prices per kWh and the SC. 

Petriix

My suspicion is that they do use a complex algorithm which is likely far too complicated for your average call centre worker to understand let alone begin to explain.

Their calculation has to accommodate the possibility of a cold winter. Looking just at last year's consumption would lead to artificially low projections due to the unusually mild weather. Likewise there's probably an adjustment for people spending more time at home now that working from home has become so much more common.

It's far more prudent to err on the side of overcharging. It's trivial to refund or roll over credit in comparison to chasing debt. In any case, at this point you really do need to be building a healthy credit in advance of the winter. You should be aiming for a zero balance at the end of April.

[Deleted User]

Petriix said:

. You should be aiming for a zero balance at the end of April.

Great in principle when energy prices are pretty static and consumers are on fixed term contracts, but very difficult given capped tariffs; the certain price rise in October followed by the, yet, undetermined price rise in January, and again next April. I should imagine that the DD modellers are working overtime.

I get it that people want some form of certainty about their future outgoings; however, as you know, monthly payments are not charges. I recall that many years ago, Ovo did produce a chart showing the average energy consumption month-by-month. Like most things that are averaged, they would probably find it difficult to find any single consumer that matched that consumption profile.