Just found out the property I mam buying is sold with limited title guarantee

taklamakan

user1977 said:

Why is this a different risk compared with buying from anybody else? A vendor who is still alive might be lying (or forgotten) about such things, if they were even enforceable against you.

Well, anybody else would be selling with full title guarantee meaning "the person is selling the property free from all mortgages and all other rights and interests which may be exercisable by a third party other than those which the seller does not and could not reasonably be expected to know". So if the person selling is lying about such contracts ever existed, these contracts would not be enforceable against me, because they would be signed by the seller who knew about it, and that can't be enforced. 

In case of limited title guarantee the seller doesn't have a knowledge about such contracts, so there is no guarantee such contracts don't exist and they can be actually enforceable against me.

Basically with limited title guarantee seller is not liable for such contracts if they exist, but with full title guarantee if such contracts exist the seller is liable for them, not the buyer. 

ka7e

I would assume any outstanding debts are now only due on the estate and would be paid by the executor. Land Registry records debts against the property and your solicitor will have checked their records when they confirmed the executor's right to sell the estate.

BlondBoy

taklamakan said:

BlondBoy said:

It’s your solicitor’s job to check for the things you’re worried about. They do it for every property, not just probate properties. Ask them - it’s what you’re paying them for.  

Any charges secured against the property will be on the title, probate or not. And your solicitor will find that. it’s one of the first things they check.

I have a copy of the title and it doesn't mention any charges secured against the property. Does it mean that property is 100% debt / lien free?

Short answer: yes. 

Long answer: When a loan is secured against a property, to make it enforceable, the lender has to register it as a charge with the Land Registry. A new edition of the register is then created to show it. 

Adding a charge and updating the register can take a little while - sometimes weeks, sometimes months. But your solicitor checks if there are any pending applications - once when they start work, and again immediately before you exchange contracts. They do the second check to make sure nothing has happened recently and you’re fully protected (and this protects your lender too, if you’re getting a mortgage).

So your copy of the register says there are no charges. That means no loans are legally secured against it right now. Immediately before you exchange contracts, your solicitor will check that’s still the case.

Hope that helps. If you’re really still concerned, ask your solicitor if there are any pending applications against the title for the property. If they say no, you’re all good for now. And remember, they’ll check again before you exchange.

user1977

taklamakan said:

user1977 said:

Why is this a different risk compared with buying from anybody else? A vendor who is still alive might be lying (or forgotten) about such things, if they were even enforceable against you.

Basically with limited title guarantee seller is not liable for such contracts if they exist, but with full title guarantee if such contracts exist the seller is liable for them, not the buyer. 

But how useful is that, unless you can (a) find wherever the seller has gone and (b) get the money out of them?

You're fretting about an immensely obscure risk. There is not some sort of fundamental problem in buying a probate property. How do you think they get sold otherwise?

taklamakan

BlondBoy said:

taklamakan said:

BlondBoy said:

It’s your solicitor’s job to check for the things you’re worried about. They do it for every property, not just probate properties. Ask them - it’s what you’re paying them for.  

Any charges secured against the property will be on the title, probate or not. And your solicitor will find that. it’s one of the first things they check.

I have a copy of the title and it doesn't mention any charges secured against the property. Does it mean that property is 100% debt / lien free?

Short answer: yes. 

Long answer: When a loan is secured against a property, to make it enforceable, the lender has to register it as a charge with the Land Registry. A new edition of the register is then created to show it. 

Adding a charge and updating the register can take a little while - sometimes weeks, sometimes months. But your solicitor checks if there are any pending applications - once when they start work, and again immediately before you exchange contracts. They do the second check to make sure nothing has happened recently and you’re fully protected (and this protects your lender too, if you’re getting a mortgage).

So your copy of the register says there are no charges. That means no loans are legally secured against it right now. Immediately before you exchange contracts, your solicitor will check that’s still the case.

Hope that helps. If you’re really still concerned, ask your solicitor if there are any pending applications against the title for the property. If they say no, you’re all good for now. And remember, they’ll check again before you exchange.

Thank you BlondBoy so much for your help. You are awesome!!! That answered all the questions I had. 5 stars to you

taklamakan

I managed to speak to my solicitor who confirmed this. Thanks again After I put the phone down, I immediately thought about something else that worries me.

What is someone tries to get a loan against this property in the period between the exchange and completion and what happens if that's the case? I just want to be protected against some kind of fraud. There are so many fraudsters everywhere nowadays.

user1977

They won't be able to, because surprisingly enough, people before you have thought about that sort of thing and taken steps to prevent it happening. Put simply, the register is protected in the period up to registration of your title giving you (and your lender) priority over any other applications.

Maybe you should have a longer meeting with your solicitor so they can guide you through the whole process, as you seem to be getting unnecessarily alarmed about perfectly normal and unproblematic things.

taklamakan

user1977 said:

They won't be able to, because surprisingly enough, people before you have thought about that sort of thing and taken steps to prevent it happening. Put simply, the register is protected in the period up to registration of your title giving you (and your lender) priority over any other applications.

Maybe you should have a longer meeting with your solicitor so they can guide you through the whole process, as you seem to be getting unnecessarily alarmed about perfectly normal and unproblematic things.

Mate, purchasing a probate property with limited title guarantee is not a normal sale to me and many people so I have my worries. Seller is not responsible for any financial charges that can arise so that's why I am asking for advise as there is so much fraud around. I don't understand why are you telling me that I am unnecessarily alarmed? There are many things that can happen during this kind of sale and I am trying to find what the implications can be. Solicitors don't always tell you everything unless you ask them but every solicitor is different and it's best to seek for answers everywhere you can. And later confirm what they tell you matches with the information you have found from different sources. Never mind. I will confirm all this with my solicitor. It's best be prepared for all eventualities as this is a very stressful time for me Thanks for your input

user1977

taklamakan said:

user1977 said:

They won't be able to, because surprisingly enough, people before you have thought about that sort of thing and taken steps to prevent it happening. Put simply, the register is protected in the period up to registration of your title giving you (and your lender) priority over any other applications.

Maybe you should have a longer meeting with your solicitor so they can guide you through the whole process, as you seem to be getting unnecessarily alarmed about perfectly normal and unproblematic things.

Mate, purchasing a probate property with limited title guarantee is not a normal sale to me 

It is. Probate sales are all over the place. They're normal. You're being unnecessarily alarmed. If you don't think you are, please point us towards any real life examples of people who have encountered any of the problems which you seem to be worried about. I can't recall any of them being discussed on the thousands of previous threads on this forum.

tealady

Hi.
Think you can register for free alerts on a property (go to Gov.uk website and follow links to land registry)
Dont think you have to own the property.