New State Pension - lost SERPS

Duffer56

I reach State Pension Age of 66 in 3 months time (October 2022 - born 1956)
Back in 2014 I had a pension statement which showed 40 qualifying years and £24.61 of SERPS
My current pension prediction in 2022 shows 47 years of full NI contributions and is forecasting I get the maximum amount of New State Pension of £185.15 but why do I not get any of the SERPS on top of that?
I was contracted out for 20 years between 1987 & 2007
On the statement in 2015 it states that COPE (Contracted Out Pension Equivalent) is £62.90pw - where do they get this figure from? Yes I have a personal pension which included my contributions and employer contributions but all of that together only gave me a pension of around £73pw.
With all the media on DWP making errors in cacluations how can I query this figure to see if a mistake has been made?

hyubh

Duffer56 said:

I reach State Pension Age of 66 in 3 months time (October 2022 - born 1956)
Back in 2014 I had a pension statement which showed 40 qualifying years and £24.61 of SERPS
My current pension prediction in 2022 shows 47 years of full NI contributions and is forecasting I get the maximum amount of New State Pension of £185.15 but why do I not get any of the SERPS on top of that?

The new state pension is a combination of the old basic and additional, with the former's flat-rate basis and a total that is lower than what most contracted in people who worked full time accrued before. If your state pension accrual (basic + additional) as at 2016 was already above the new single tier level, then the difference became a 'protected' amount. If however your accrual was less, then there was nothing to protect.

I was contracted out for 20 years between 1987 & 2007
On the statement in 2015 it states that COPE (Contracted Out Pension Equivalent) is £62.90pw - where do they get this figure from? Yes I have a personal pension which included my contributions and employer contributions but all of that together only gave me a pension of around £73pw.

The COPE is roughly equivalent to what would have been the 'contracted out deduction' (COD) under the old system - simplifying a bit, the old state pension calculation worked by assuming the individual had been contracted in their working life, then subtracting a figure for the revalued/increased SERPs and S2P forgone by contracting out. So, the COPE is a reflection of what would have been the forgone earnings-related state pension, according to SEPRS/S2P's own rules. It has no particular relation to what a formally contracted out person actually gets with the pension they contracted out with. This will additionally be so if you contracted out with a personal pension, and therefore, into a DC not DB arrangement.

Linton

In April 2016 two calculations were made:
1) SP accrued to date under the old system rules with SERPs and old standard rate
2) SP accrued to date under new system rules with no SERPs but new higher standard rate.

The higher was taken as the starting amount.  From 2016 you accrued under the new rules.  The new rules do not permit an SP greater than the standard amount unless it was already accrued prior to April 2016.

The COPE represents the pension you did not accrue when you were contracted out of SERPs.  You havent lost the SERPs, it it is included in the calculation of £185.15 and may have partly compensated you for the COPE.

There is no indication of any mistake.  From memory we have never seen a case where the basic calculation above was shown to be wrong.

dunstonh

My current pension prediction in 2022 shows 47 years of full NI contributions and is forecasting I get the maximum amount of New State Pension of £185.15 but why do I not get any of the SERPS on top of that?

The new state pension is £185.15
The basic state pension is £141.85.

In very simple terms, your qualification plus contracted in benefits doesn't exceed £185.15.    You are likely marginally better off on the new method than then old one.

On the statement in 2015 it states that COPE (Contracted Out Pension Equivalent) is £62.90pw - where do they get this figure from? Yes I have a personal pension which included my contributions and employer contributions but all of that together only gave me a pension of around £73pw.

The pension income from the protected rights is what you choose it to be.  It would be different if you chose a low income instead of a higher one. e.g. if you used an in-house annuity with indexation or income drawdown or a level annuity or an annuity with value protect.   Also, don't forget the 25% tax free cash.   If you took that, then the income would be 25% lower.    

Some people take their whole pension as a lump sum with no income. Some take a higher income. Some take a lower income.  So, what you take is largely irrelevant due to the varying styles you can have.

With all the media on DWP making errors in cacluations how can I query this figure to see if a mistake has been made?

These are largely errors going back a long time.   The changes in 2016 are more recent and not reliant on manual calculations.  Your figures seem in line with expectations given your 2014 figures.

xylophone

See this post and links.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79363731/#Comment_79363731

In your case, at 16/4/16 (when you had over 35 years NI) -



Old Rules

£119.30 (full basic) + (SERPS/S2P - Deduction for Contracting Out)

New Rules

£155.65 (full NSP) - COPE.

Your "Foundation Amount" was the higher of the two and in your case was the Old Rules amount.

If (as seems likely), it was less than a full NSP, your contributions since 6/4/16 improved your state pension up to (but not exceeding) a full NSP.

See also

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/state-pension-fact-sheets/contracting-out-and-why-we-may-have-included-a-contracted-out-pension-equivalent-cope-amount-when-you-used-the-online-service

xylophone

I was contracted out for 20 years between 1987 & 2007
On the statement in 2015 it states that COPE (Contracted Out Pension Equivalent) is £62.90pw - where do they get this figure from? Yes I have a personal pension which included my contributions and employer contributions but all of that together only gave me a pension of around £73pw.

If you were in a contracted out scheme in 1987, then  this was not a "personal pension".

Could you be clearer about what type of scheme it was?

Did you leave the Scheme in 2007 and leave your pension deferred?