Letter from HMRC

theepw9

RAS said:

I suspect you've missed a vital word in your second paragraph?

Yes I have - "do not receive income from any property", is how it should read.  

user1977

theepw9 said:

1) The contact details on the HMRC letter state a phone number of: 0300 322 9421 and an address of: Indv and Small Business Compliance, Campaigns and projects, HM Revenue and Customs, BX9 1LE.  Does anyone know if this is a legit phone number and address for HMRC?

Yes, although I can't find that exact number, I can find others of theirs in the 0300 322 9xxx range so I expect that's just another of their extensions. Similarly, everything at BX9 is HMRC (it's not an actual geographic post code). So I think it safe to assume you are dealing with HMRC.

I suggest you humour them in their enquiries - they could be looking at somebody with the same (or similar) name to you, for example. Being awkward about it is hardly likely to put them off.

theepw9

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

theepw9 said:

Hello everyone,

I would be most grateful for the advice of anyone of this forum as I have received a letter that is causing a degree of stress and would appreciate any advice and opinions.

Essentially, out of the blue a few weeks ago, I received a letter from the HMRC entitled: "Income from letting property"

The letter essentially stated that the HMRC had a 'belief' that I am receiving rental income from a second property.  They stated that "our information shows that you are the legal owner of a property in [postcode] area".

This came as a huge shock to me, because I don't own any other property other than the house I am living in (and paying my mortgage for).  I have no idea where the HMRC have obtained this "belief" from.

As a result, I am concerned about identity theft (i.e. is someone else using my name to buy property?) as well as wondering where HMRC have got this wrong "belief" from, that I own property and am earning rental income.  The letter does not provide any more specific details other than a postcode (of an area I have never visited or lived in); no details of what property this supposedly is or where HMRC have got the evidence for this from.  This is essentially an accusation out of no where.  Which has just baffled me - it seems so random.

They are now asking for bank statements from all bank accounts that I hold covering the years of 2017 - 2019.

I really feel that the tone of this letter (£300 fine if I do not submit by a certain date) is that of: guilty until proven innocent.  

I would therefore be most grateful for any advice on the matter and on the following questions:

1) The contact details on the HMRC letter state a phone number of: 0300 322 9421 and an address of: Indv and Small Business Compliance, Campaigns and projects, HM Revenue and Customs, BX9 1LE.  Does anyone know if this is a legit phone number and address for HMRC?  Just in case this is some form of elaborate scam in order to get my bank details.  I cannot seem to find this exact address or phone number when I search for this online.

2) In terms of my rights - does the HMRC have a duty to inform me of exactly what supposed property this is (i.e. full address) as well as their evidence for this, rather than just a random postcode and threatening me with a fine if I do not submit bank statements?  I feel that I am having to provide lots of personal information without HMRC backing up anything of their behalf or providing any evidence other than the first three digits of a postcode.  

3) Do you think this is likely to be a scam?

4) What would you advise at the next steps going forward - is it too early or too OTT to obtain some legal advice / Citizens Advice on the matter?  I'm just concerned about whether this could be fraud / someone using my name.

Thanks for your time reading this and I would be most grateful for any opinions and advice on the matter.

For someone who seems to be saying, somewhat round the houses, that you have never owned a property in that postcode never mind let one out you seem a bit over sensitive.

Why on earth would you want to take legal advice (or consider giving them your bank statements)?

@sammyjammy hit the nail on head with their post.  

Just reply in a sensible manner explaining the facts.  Personally I wouldn't say "I don't own any other property" as what your situation is today really doesn't matter, it's what the position was in the period HMRC are interest in that counts.

Just to add some further clarity to your original reply Dazed_and_C0nfused; the over sensitive nature of my original post probably comes from the fact the unfortunately I do suffer from anxiety (and am a bit of a worrier) and my worries were more focused around the possibility of there being identity theft (i.e. someone using my name or details in another part of the country), rather than worried about HMRC, because I know that personally I have nothing to hide.

theepw9

user1977 said:

theepw9 said:

1) The contact details on the HMRC letter state a phone number of: 0300 322 9421 and an address of: Indv and Small Business Compliance, Campaigns and projects, HM Revenue and Customs, BX9 1LE.  Does anyone know if this is a legit phone number and address for HMRC?

Yes, although I can't find that exact number, I can find others of theirs in the 0300 322 9xxx range so I expect that's just another of their extensions. Similarly, everything at BX9 is HMRC (it's not an actual geographic post code). So I think it safe to assume you are dealing with HMRC.

I suggest you humour them in their enquiries - they could be looking at somebody with the same (or similar) name to you, for example. Being awkward about it is hardly likely to put them off.

Thank you for your reply user1977.

So would you personally send them the 3 years worth of bank statements then with asking for more details?  
...or would you clarify exactly where this evidence has come from?  
I just feel that in this situation, I am more than entitled to ask exactly where this belief and evidence has come from.  Rather than just blinding sending off 3 years worth of annotated bank statements, that HMRC are requesting.  
It just feels like a guilty until proven innocent approach and HMRC are very reluctant to give me many more details around the circumstances of this "belief".

user1977

theepw9 said:

user1977 said:

theepw9 said:

1) The contact details on the HMRC letter state a phone number of: 0300 322 9421 and an address of: Indv and Small Business Compliance, Campaigns and projects, HM Revenue and Customs, BX9 1LE.  Does anyone know if this is a legit phone number and address for HMRC?

Yes, although I can't find that exact number, I can find others of theirs in the 0300 322 9xxx range so I expect that's just another of their extensions. Similarly, everything at BX9 is HMRC (it's not an actual geographic post code). So I think it safe to assume you are dealing with HMRC.

I suggest you humour them in their enquiries - they could be looking at somebody with the same (or similar) name to you, for example. Being awkward about it is hardly likely to put them off.

So would you personally send them the 3 years worth of bank statements then with asking for more details?  
...or would you clarify exactly where this evidence has come from?  
I just feel that in this situation, I am more than entitled to ask exactly where this belief and evidence has come from.  Rather than just blinding sending off 3 years worth of annotated bank statements, that HMRC are requesting.  
It just feels like a guilty until proven innocent approach and HMRC are very reluctant to give me many more details around the circumstances of this "belief".

Put it this way - what harm would come of sending the bank statements? HMRC aren't going to steal your identity, the worst they can do is discover that you have in fact been dodging your taxes.

They're not likely to share their intelligence with you.

Bonniepurple

Ring them up and check.  I used to own a half share in a rental property and so had to do a tax return.  No biggie - I have to do one for my husband anyway.  I was bought out of the property, informed HMRC, submitted my final accounts in 2019 and thought that was it.  Imagine my horror when I got told I’d been fined £100 (minimum) for not submitting a tax return that their own systems told me I didn’t need to!

A ‘quick’ (mainly on hold!) call later and I got a very apologetic answer and the fine cancelled.  If you are sure that you have no other property call them and follow up by email.  Of course, the more reluctant you are to engage with them the more suspicious it looks.

theepw9

user1977 said:

theepw9 said:

user1977 said:

theepw9 said:

1) The contact details on the HMRC letter state a phone number of: 0300 322 9421 and an address of: Indv and Small Business Compliance, Campaigns and projects, HM Revenue and Customs, BX9 1LE.  Does anyone know if this is a legit phone number and address for HMRC?

Yes, although I can't find that exact number, I can find others of theirs in the 0300 322 9xxx range so I expect that's just another of their extensions. Similarly, everything at BX9 is HMRC (it's not an actual geographic post code). So I think it safe to assume you are dealing with HMRC.

I suggest you humour them in their enquiries - they could be looking at somebody with the same (or similar) name to you, for example. Being awkward about it is hardly likely to put them off.

So would you personally send them the 3 years worth of bank statements then with asking for more details?  
...or would you clarify exactly where this evidence has come from?  
I just feel that in this situation, I am more than entitled to ask exactly where this belief and evidence has come from.  Rather than just blinding sending off 3 years worth of annotated bank statements, that HMRC are requesting.  
It just feels like a guilty until proven innocent approach and HMRC are very reluctant to give me many more details around the circumstances of this "belief".

Put it this way - what harm would come of sending the bank statements? HMRC aren't going to steal your identity, the worst they can do is discover that you have in fact been dodging your taxes.

They're not likely to share their intelligence with you.

Thanks for your advice.  Just out of interest, do you know why they are unlikely to share their intelligence with me?  Do I not have a right to know what this intelligence is if I am being accused of something?  Because for me, this brings in the wider issue of potential identify theft/fraud and someone using my name and details.  To be, this intelligence is potentially more than just sending off what HMRC want; it's more about is there an issue with identity theft going on.

user1977

theepw9 said:

user1977 said:

theepw9 said:

user1977 said:

theepw9 said:

1) The contact details on the HMRC letter state a phone number of: 0300 322 9421 and an address of: Indv and Small Business Compliance, Campaigns and projects, HM Revenue and Customs, BX9 1LE.  Does anyone know if this is a legit phone number and address for HMRC?

Yes, although I can't find that exact number, I can find others of theirs in the 0300 322 9xxx range so I expect that's just another of their extensions. Similarly, everything at BX9 is HMRC (it's not an actual geographic post code). So I think it safe to assume you are dealing with HMRC.

I suggest you humour them in their enquiries - they could be looking at somebody with the same (or similar) name to you, for example. Being awkward about it is hardly likely to put them off.

So would you personally send them the 3 years worth of bank statements then with asking for more details?  
...or would you clarify exactly where this evidence has come from?  
I just feel that in this situation, I am more than entitled to ask exactly where this belief and evidence has come from.  Rather than just blinding sending off 3 years worth of annotated bank statements, that HMRC are requesting.  
It just feels like a guilty until proven innocent approach and HMRC are very reluctant to give me many more details around the circumstances of this "belief".

Put it this way - what harm would come of sending the bank statements? HMRC aren't going to steal your identity, the worst they can do is discover that you have in fact been dodging your taxes.

They're not likely to share their intelligence with you.

Thanks for your advice.  Just out of interest, do you know why they are unlikely to share their intelligence with me?  Do I not have a right to know what this intelligence is if I am being accused of something?

In short, no, at least not at this stage. It's like the police investigating something - they don't need to tell you everything they know about a suspected crime before they start asking you questions. If you were guilty of something, it might help you to shape your version of events if you had a good idea of what they already knew (or didn't know).

Whether somebody has been committing identity theft (and I wouldn't be so sure about that) is a separate matter, and not what they're investigating. But I expect you'll get a better idea of what's actually happened as things progress.

theepw9

user1977 said:

theepw9 said:

user1977 said:

theepw9 said:

user1977 said:

theepw9 said:

1) The contact details on the HMRC letter state a phone number of: 0300 322 9421 and an address of: Indv and Small Business Compliance, Campaigns and projects, HM Revenue and Customs, BX9 1LE.  Does anyone know if this is a legit phone number and address for HMRC?

Yes, although I can't find that exact number, I can find others of theirs in the 0300 322 9xxx range so I expect that's just another of their extensions. Similarly, everything at BX9 is HMRC (it's not an actual geographic post code). So I think it safe to assume you are dealing with HMRC.

I suggest you humour them in their enquiries - they could be looking at somebody with the same (or similar) name to you, for example. Being awkward about it is hardly likely to put them off.

So would you personally send them the 3 years worth of bank statements then with asking for more details?  
...or would you clarify exactly where this evidence has come from?  
I just feel that in this situation, I am more than entitled to ask exactly where this belief and evidence has come from.  Rather than just blinding sending off 3 years worth of annotated bank statements, that HMRC are requesting.  
It just feels like a guilty until proven innocent approach and HMRC are very reluctant to give me many more details around the circumstances of this "belief".

Put it this way - what harm would come of sending the bank statements? HMRC aren't going to steal your identity, the worst they can do is discover that you have in fact been dodging your taxes.

They're not likely to share their intelligence with you.

Thanks for your advice.  Just out of interest, do you know why they are unlikely to share their intelligence with me?  Do I not have a right to know what this intelligence is if I am being accused of something?

In short, no, at least not at this stage. It's like the police investigating something - they don't need to tell you everything they know about a suspected crime before they start asking you questions. If you were guilty of something, it might help you to shape your version of events if you had a good idea of what they already knew (or didn't know).

Whether somebody has been committing identity theft (and I wouldn't be so sure about that) is a separate matter, and not what they're investigating. But I expect you'll get a better idea of what's actually happened as things progress.

Thank you for your reply user1977 - I appreciate you taking the time to answer my queries and concerns.

GTR_King

Best advice is if HMRC Wants 3 years worth of bank statements for all your accounts order copies (Don't send originals) from your banks once they arrive open them to check the dates then put them all in an envelope or small box and send recorded tracked delivery...

Worst case they will shred all your banks statements... but most likely send them back to you. 

They won't tell you why they want your bank statements or suspect your renting a property as legally not allowed to tell you to tip you off