Forcing a Joint Account? Is it possible?

Ergates

Daliah said:

I am afraid, if she is compos mentis, she can do as she likes.
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Apart from the stealing from her husband bit - she's not allowed to do that.

helpingtheoutlaws

Unfortunately FIL has little in the way of own personal income, just some pensions. He can afford the upkeep on the house, but very little else.

The points raised on joint liability make sense. There are varying degrees of access to an account from a fiduciary roll to that of joint account holder and full financial association. The problem is that as interest starts to accrue debt MIL has got into by virtue of the scam, she is looking at equity release in the house they share. I have said that making any kind of secured loan out of this debt is not a good idea, as there are steps that could be taken to find some arrangement on the debt, and/or the future possibility of some reimbursement from the bank for the fraud. 

I fear on her mental capacity, but having spoken to the police on that there's little that can be done unless it manifests to the point of being sectioned. Indeed, the Police said themselves they have been frustrated on other cases where you would be shocked there's no action on mental capacity.

I don't actually know how much debt she is in, she has told me some of it, but it's clear that it is more than she has disclosed. 

It's clear then there is no scope for even FIL to have access to the account, unless there is some kind of event on the mental capacity route. I am guessing if she does something like equity release, he would need to sign a deed of some kind as he has a beneficial interest in the house, as her husband. 

If she looks to remortgage her buy to let, I am guessing she is going to struggle as her credit file will have late payments/defaults. Guessing she could still go sub prime market for release of equity from that. 

From my perspective, trying to detach any emotion as it's profoundly sad, that things are only going to get worse. She says she has no problem with gambling when we spoke, has had to resume work to try and pay the debts but is limited in work through significant health issues (she even wants me to be a referee on a new job application but say I am a "friend", which I said I can't really do as that's misrrepresention). I am guessing that is because (having seen her bank statements) that she has had money from friends and family on many occasions and I am guessing has fallen out with many as a result of not being able to pay back.

Daliah

Unless the house is in her name, she cannot do equity release, or take out another form of mortgage, on the house without his agreement

badmemory

Would a marker on land registry be a good idea, just in case?  I believe that for a fee anyone can do it & they get notified if there is any action.  The owners do not even have to be aware.

helpingtheoutlaws

Daliah said:

Unless the house is in her name, she cannot do equity release, or take out another form of mortgage, on the house without his agreement

It's in her name.

MalMonroe

I have to admit to being a bit puzzled here. How on earth do you know so much about someone else's financial affairs? And does your partner have any knowledge of their parents' apparent financial vulnerability? 

I fear that there is nothing you can do because it seems as if your in-laws (in their 60s they are still very young - to me, anyway, as I'm 72 and wouldn't appreciate anyone interfering in my financial affairs).

There really is very little that you can do here because you have no power. You can't just involve yourself in someone else's life, especially when they obviously do not want it. Not even your father in law, or he'd be trying to tackle what you  seem to think is a big problem. You will just have to try to put all this to one side and concentrate on your own life. With your partner. I'm assuming you are still together?

If your mother in law SHOULD ever need help with gambling, there's also the NHS to turn to as gambling is seen as a medical issue akin to alcoholism now. 

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/addiction-support/gambling-addiction/

You cannot force anybody else to do anything. Nor should you try. You've had a bash but it's failed. Now you have to let them get on with it. Unsolicited advice or help is something that is extremely annoying, it's no wonder your mother in law doesn't want to cooperate!

Sorry but I really think you're really onto a loser with this one. And if your father in law doesn't pull his socks up he is going to be homeless but it's something they have to do and cope with, as a couple.

helpingtheoutlaws

MalMonroe said:

I have to admit to being a bit puzzled here. How on earth do you know so much about someone else's financial affairs? And does your partner have any knowledge of their parents' apparent financial vulnerability? 

She came to me for help, she said something had gone wrong, I helped prove the fraud was indeed a fraud as she thought it was really not, I helped get the police and charities involved for her. I sat with her to go through stuff with the bank, as she was in pieces then, so we sat in the bank for 5 hours. Hence unfortunately I have seen a lot that to some extent I wish I had not. She has wanted help, but now the hard issues are coming, on the future, provision for if there is no reimbursement from then bank, then it's becoming very difficult. FIL is aware of huge sums, but not details. I have said MIL needs to share with him, she won't.

Told my other half everything, she is just pleased that I have tried to help. My other half won't be happy when I say that I don't wanna settle the debt with the pawnbroker for the rings MIL pawned, but I feel that worse is yet to come, and paying out now is a waste of money as it will only happen again. MIL doesn't seem in any way regretful for the impact this has had on FIL or the people who have lent her money. 

eskbanker

helpingtheoutlaws said:
I have said MIL needs to share with him, she won't.

Possibly something of a nuclear option, but you could perhaps force the issue by saying that if she doesn't tell him the full story then you will, or at least insist on a four-way conversation involving both couples, to get everything out in the open?  She's put you in a very awkward position by confiding in you and it's admirable that you've rolled your sleeves up and tried to help, but IMHO it wouldn't be unreasonable for you to advise her that it's not a sustainable situation and that openness and honesty are the way forward....

Daliah

helpingtheoutlaws said:

Daliah said:

Unless the house is in her name, she cannot do equity release, or take out another form of mortgage, on the house without his agreement

It's in her name.

Good grief. The poor lad, he must despair. Seems the only way he could secure his half of the joint asset is to file for divorce? 

General_Grant

Daliah said:

helpingtheoutlaws said:

Daliah said:

Unless the house is in her name, she cannot do equity release, or take out another form of mortgage, on the house without his agreement

It's in her name.

Good grief. The poor lad, he must despair. Seems the only way he could secure his half of the joint asset is to file for divorce? 

AIUI they jointly own the house they live in but she has another property (Buy to Let basis) where she is the sole owner.