Reliable way of finding out if property has estate management charge

MrCarrot

Hi there,

Made an offer on a 4 year old "new build" property which has been accepted.  The seller claims there is no estate management charge.  I downloaded a copy of the title deed from the land registry and it does say there is a covenant (no detail of what it is) but unlike other properties I've checked there is no mention of an estate management company.

I checked the sign on the local play area, and it says the play area is provided by the local parish council, which again is unusual.  There is a public footpath with some fencing, and a suds basin.  Not too much to maintain, but I thought it was completely unheard of for a city or county council to adopt any greenspace whatsoever.

Other than wait for the conveyancing process, how else could I find out if there definitely isn't a management charge?  I doubt the original developer (David Wilson) would be interested in talking to me.  I checked on the government website and the roads are adopted, but that doesn't usually include the greenspace.

Thanks,

user1977

Is there a reason why you don't want to wait until the conveyancing process (this sort of thing is kinda the point of the conveyancing process...)? It doesn't sound like it would be a big deal anyway even if there were a charge.

Tiglet2

It is highly likely that a 4 year old property will have a managing agent for the communal areas.  If the property is freehold, but with a management company, then your solicitor will need to see a completed FME1 form (Freehold Management Enquiries), which will give the appropriate information you need with regard to fees etc.

If you look at the Register of Title, check if there are any restrictions noted at B of the Proprietorship Register. 

A sample of such a restriction might say this:

(29.06.2018) RESTRICTION: No disposition of the registered estate by the proprietor of the registered estate or by the proprietor of any registered charge, not being a charge registered before the entry of this restriction is to be registered without a certificate signed by A. N. Other Management Company Limited (Co. Regn. No. 007007) of A.N.O House, North Road, Anytown AN7 8DE that the provisions of clauses 4.19, 6.3 and 6.4 of the Transfer dated 1 June 2018 referred to in the Charges Register have been complied with. 

If the title does have such a restriction, then there is a management company.

MrCarrot

Tiglet2 said:

It is highly likely that a 4 year old property will have a managing agent for the communal areas.  If the property is freehold, but with a management company, then your solicitor will need to see a completed FME1 form (Freehold Management Enquiries), which will give the appropriate information you need with regard to fees etc.

If you look at the Register of Title, check if there are any restrictions noted at B of the Proprietorship Register. 

No, the restrictions are:

RESTRICTION: No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the court

I think that's related to it being owned jointly by husband and wife.

Then on the same date there is a similar restriction mentioning Barclays Bank which I am guessing is a mortgage.

Then three and a half years later another restriction that mentions some kind of finance company, which I am guessing is a secured loan or mortgage.

user1977 said:

Is there a reason why you don't want to wait until the conveyancing process (this sort of thing is kinda the point of the conveyancing process...)? It doesn't sound like it would be a big deal anyway even if there were a charge.

I am generally averse to estate management charges.  If the property was 100% perfect in every way, I might live with such a charge, however no property is 100% perfect (at least not in my budget).  Therefore, given other compromises I'd prefer not to have an uncapped and unregulated fee associated with my house.  I was in disbelief that there isn't a charge, but it's looking more and more likely that there isn't.  I'll probably have to wait for the conveyancing to be certain, but it would be nice to know upfront.

I did manage to download some of the original planning docs, and it said that the developer had planned to pay the council a five year fee for maintenance of the open spaces.  I think after the five years the council would then maintain the green space at their own cost.  I was unsure about the balancing ponds though, unless the water company have adopted these, but I can't find reference to that.

canaldumidi

MrCarrot said:

....I downloaded a copy of the title deed from the land registry and it does say there is a covenant (no detail of what it is) but unlike other properties I've checked there is no mention of an estate management company.

...

Quote please?

Dos it say the covenant is within a Conveyance or Deed 'dated xx/xx/xxxx'? If so, apply for a copy of that Conveyance or Deed. £7 using Form OC2 here

MrCarrot

Here is what it says:

"A Transfer of the land in this title dated XXX made between (1) XXX and (2) XXX and XXX contains restrictive covenants. NOTE: Copy filed"

And then with the same date, it says:

"The Transfer dated XXX referred to above contains a covenant as to the grant of right in the events therein mentioned"

newsgroupmonkey_

So as canaldumidi said, fill the form out and pay the 7 quid.
We did it for ours. It made for very dull reading, but I'm glad we did.

canaldumidi

MrCarrot said:

Here is what it says:

"A Transfer of the land in this title dated XXX made between (1) XXX and (2) XXX and XXX contains restrictive covenants. NOTE: Copy filed"

And then with the same date, it says:

"The Transfer dated XXX referred to above contains a covenant as to the grant of right in the events therein mentioned"

Then you need to get, and read, the "Transfer of the land in this title dated XXX made between (1) XXX and (2) XXX and XXX".

That's where the details of the covenants are!

The fact that it says "Copy filed" means the LR have a copy.

MrCarrot

canaldumidi said:

MrCarrot said:

Here is what it says:

"A Transfer of the land in this title dated XXX made between (1) XXX and (2) XXX and XXX contains restrictive covenants. NOTE: Copy filed"

And then with the same date, it says:

"The Transfer dated XXX referred to above contains a covenant as to the grant of right in the events therein mentioned"

Then you need to get, and read, the "Transfer of the land in this title dated XXX made between (1) XXX and (2) XXX and XXX".

That's where the details of the covenants are!

The fact that it says "Copy filed" means the LR have a copy.

But... aren't the covenants likely to be things like you cannot park commercial vehicles on the property, you cannot change the shrubs outside for 5 years, you cannot use the garage as living space, etc?

Previous properites I've checked explicitly name the management company in the title deed, whereas this doesn't.  Below is an example from a different property:

RESTRICTION: No disposition of the registered estate (other than a charge) by the proprietor of the registered estate or by the proprietor of any registered charge, not being a charge registered before the entry of this restriction, is to be registered without a certificate signed by XXX Management Limited (Co. Regn. No. 0123456) of 1 Barrow Road, Southampton SN1 111 that the provisions of Clause 13 of the Third Schedule to the Transfer dated XXX referred to in the Charges Register have been complied with.

I have no objection to paying £7 but it looks like you have to pay via cheque so I am not sure how long it will take.

eggy1

MrCarrot said:

Hi there,

Made an offer on a 4 year old "new build" property which has been accepted.  The seller claims there is no estate management charge.  I downloaded a copy of the title deed from the land registry and it does say there is a covenant (no detail of what it is) but unlike other properties I've checked there is no mention of an estate management company.

I checked the sign on the local play area, and it says the play area is provided by the local parish council, which again is unusual.  There is a public footpath with some fencing, and a suds basin.  Not too much to maintain, but I thought it was completely unheard of for a city or county council to adopt any greenspace whatsoever.

Other than wait for the conveyancing process, how else could I find out if there definitely isn't a management charge?  I doubt the original developer (David Wilson) would be interested in talking to me.  I checked on the government website and the roads are adopted, but that doesn't usually include the greenspace.

Thanks,

Just out of interest, did you purchase the house and find out all info required? 
We are about to do similar ahead of fully offering on a property. 
You did well to investigate. So many STILL don't understand the repercussions of buying freehold 'new builds' and nearly new builds, and the management companies implications! 

whizzywoo

MrCarrot said:

I have no objection to paying £7 but it looks like you have to pay via cheque so I am not sure how long it will take.

I have always paid online when purchasing from the Land Registry.  Done in a couple of minutes and the documents available within seconds.  Make sure you are on the .Gov site
https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/land-registry