First reply to Notice To Driver. Am I shooting myself in the foot?

Don1947

I have now received a Notice to Driver for parking in the car park of a block of flats without a permit for less than 3 minutes.

Unfortunately the Parking Co has already been advised that I was the driver so most of the strategies recommended in Advice to Newbies is not applicable.

 I propose to respond with the letter below, which I have put together from various posts in this forum.

I know it’s a bit of a cheek to ask but could one of the experts on this Forum be kind enough to cast their eye over it to make sure I am not shooting myself in the foot, or whether anything should be added..

It will be very much appreciated.

 

Dear sir.

I am in receipt of a “Parking Charge Notice to Driver”  ref 12345678 dated xx July 22, from your company.

Firstly this document gives very little information, it notes that “a notice to keeper has been issued giving full details of the charge” . However, as the keeper is under no obligation to forward the “notice to keeper” document to the driver, I can not accept this notice until you formally supply me with the “full details of the charge” you refer to.

Secondly, I can see no evidence demonstrating that you have the authority to issue such a charge either in your own right or on behalf of the landowner.  As we are, quite rightly, advised to beware of scams, I will require the following information before I deal further with this matter’

Who is the party that contracted with NPE Ltd for the provision of their services at the site of the alleged event.

What is the full legal identity and address of the landowner? Please note I intend to complain to the landowner, and each of their tenants individually, concerning the predatory nature of your operation in view of the brief time you allege the vehicle was on the land in question (Less than 3 minutes)

As you are not the landowner, please provide a contemporaneous and unredacted copy of your contract with the landholder that demonstrate that NPE Ltd have the authority of the landowner to both issue parking charges and legislate in your own name or on behalf of the landowner

If not included in the contract document noted above please advise the grace periods agreed with the landowner for this specific site

Is your charge based on damages for breach of contract? - Yes or no?  If the charge is based on damages for breach of contract, please provide justification of this sum.

Is your charge based on a contractually agreed sum for the provision of parking? - Yes or no?  If the charge is based on a contractually agreed sum for the provision of parking please, provide a valid VAT invoice as you make no mention of VAT in any correspondence.

The signage to the site (from a seated position in the vehicle as it enters the car park) is impossible to read. I have photographic evidence of this. If you intend to dispute this please provide a photograph of the sign at the entrance that you purport forms the basis of the contract entered into by the driver..

Please note this is not a formal appeal. However I confirm that I intend to contest this charge and when I receive a full reply to all the questions above I will be in a position to furnish you with a full response, and to advise full details of my appeal..

Yours faithfully etc.

 

Thank you.

Coupon-mad

You won't get any of that info from NPE and should NEVER appeal saying 'this is not an appeal'.

Bin it and use the template appeal from the NEWBIES thread.

Just remove the bit that says the driver won't be named (as you were named as driver by the keeper). And change the sentence about pay & display machines to instead say you were reading the sign to try to find out if a permit was needed and how to obtain one, and when you saw it was required but zero i formation was supplied about where to gain authorisation, you realised it was a trap and left immediately - within 3 or 4 minutes - and no ticket had been placed on the car, so this was lurking and predatory conduct. 

Then repeat that at IAS stage, no other rubbish, games or template.  Allege there was an insufficient consideration period and that breaches the IPC CoP.

Don1947

Thank you Coupon Mad.. Difficult to say I was reading the sign when they have video of me getting out of the car and walking away, walking down the street in plain view followed by me retracing my steps 2 minutes later,  getting in the car and driving away. I thought I might at least get the name of the landowner so that I can complain to them as recommended.
The bit about the sign at the entrance is true, it is hidden by overgrown hedge and parked cars, there are no other signs at the entrance, I have a photo, is that not useful.?

Don1947

I am working on the template from the Newbies thread now.

Coupon-mad

Just use the template (if you desperately want to appeal) then ignore NPE after that and don't try IAS then. Ignore all debt demands but tell NPE if you move house within 6 years.

Come back if you get a court claim but stay under the radar. You don't even have to appeal.

Don1947

Thank you, I shall follow your advice and use the template, then ignore any response.

However I really would like to complain to the managing agent of the block of flats or the landowner (it may be the local authority as the flats look like they may be sheltered housing). Is there any way I can find out who this is except by asking NPE for evidence of who gave them the authority to apply charges?.

Coupon-mad

No point asking. You will have to research who runs the place.

NPE won't tell you - and they certainly don't work for any Councils!  Some Norwich Councillors hate them:

https://norwich.greenparty.org.uk/2016/02/01/parking-scam-a-letter-to-the-government/

https://norwich.greenparty.org.uk/2016/06/04/stop-heavy-handed-parking-enforcement-at-earlham-house-shops/

You know about the new (temporarily stalled) statutory Code of Practice and the upcoming Public Consultation? We need you to help us get it over the line please!

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6321057/county-court-claim-defence-counterclaim#latest

Respond with us when it opens. Read about it now so you know what it is about, learn what the greedy PPCs did this year to delay and block it, and how YOU will make a difference to the future law.

Don1947

Thank you.

Thank you. I will knock on some of the flat doors this weekend to try to find out who owns/manages the flats.

I have amended the Newbie template as you suggested, see below.

 Re; Notice to Driver reference number:

I dispute your 'parking charge',. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions and no assumptions can be drawn.

Since your Notice to Driver is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle. You refer to full details having been provided in your Notice to Keeper. This is a response to your Notice to Driver, an entirely different entity. The notice to Keeper is now irrelevant as your notice to Keeper was not sent to the writer.

As the allegation involves an alleged stay of  less than 3 minutes (actually 2 minutes and 47 seconds), your evidence must include the actual grace periods agreed by the landowner.

In order to resolve the dispute I attach a photograph of the entrance to the site clearly showing that the only signage that could be visible from the entrance is totally obscured by overgrown hedges and parked cars. Almost all other signage on the site was obscured in the same way (I have photos).  Such signage breaches the IPC Code of Practice. 

 

I also allege there was an insufficient consideration period, to enable a sign to be read, to find out that a permit was needed and how to obtain one, to discover there was zero information supplied about where to gain authorisation, to recognise that it is clearly a trap and to leave immediately – in 2 minutes and 47 seconds - and as no ticket had been placed on the car, this was lurking and predatory conduct., and that breaches the IPC CoP.

Name and Address.

Should I delete the photo?

 

Fruitcake

I wouldn't include that particular photo because of the entrance sign. If you are able, I would get a photo, ideally from inside a car, taken on approach to the car park, possibly with the entrance on the right to show that the sign cannot be read when arriving from that direction.
If you are unable, then I would omit it.