Do you have to have a gas account

Chrysalis

pochase said:

Let's have a look at the cost of removing gas from the property.

Some suppliers, for example Octopus will do it for free, whereby Octopus already states if it happens more often they will not do this any longer.

For others you will have to cover the cost yourself, minimum £396 here

https://www.gasconnections.co.uk/gas-meter-removal/

After the meter is removed there is a good chance that the GNO decides that the gas pipe to your property needs to be removed. You are no longer paying for it, but they are taking the risk of maintaining it.

The Gas Network Operator (GNO) is responsible for the gas pipe that comes from the gas main into the property. Some time after your gas has been disconnected, they’ll likely visit your property to check things out, and might decide to disconnect the gas pipe that runs into the house from the gas main in the street

The cost for this seems to start at £1300 to £1800 depending on region

https://cadentgas.com/services/household-customer/disconnections

So £1700 cost going from the cheap option and a cost of £15.50 per month means you will start to save money after a bit over 9 years.

That does not take into account that heating water with electricity is much more expensive. Lets say you heat up water in the tank every 3 days for one hour, that are 30KWh of electricity. 30KWh of gas will be soon £4.29 while electricity is £13.20, £8.91 more expensive. The monthly savings just dropped to £6.59, and we lost the possibility to use "cheap" heating with gas if it becomes necessary. Compared to a modern boiler without pilot light there is almost no savings left.

The break even point just moved up to 21.5 years taking into account hot water.

If you own the property you will need to reconnect gas before you sell, otherwise you will find it hard to find buyers, or you will lose as they will pay less. Cost should be about the same to reconnect the property to gas as it was to disconnect it.

If you are renting you also will have to reconnect the property, your landlord will insist on it. 

We are now at 43 years to break even....

What are you planning to do about the central heating? Disconnecting it for years will for sure mean it will break, and I doubt that it can be repaired. So we need a new boiler, maybe new radiators if they have been drained and even the pipes could break if not used for a very long time. 

Very informative post, one could compare paying for GAS SC akin to paying a protection racket then, "you either pay this money for something you dont use or you give us 1.5k." O_o

I also wonder how enforceable it is, unless its in the energy contract that the customer pays for removal of pipe infrastructure to street on disconnection, then one could argue, the gas company doesnt need to remove the pipe and as such they are voluntarily spending the money to remove it themselves.  Also in court one could ask for proof of maintenance cost of this pipe and show proof e.g. cctv archives that show there is no maintenance done on the pipe for a long time (which is probably the case for most households).

In my case I might get away with it though as I have two neighbouring flats on the same pipe so they would probably decide to keep the pipe there to supply the other flats.

brewerdave

Astria said:

pochase said:

Are you the owner of the property or do you rent? You would need your landlord to agree to removing the gas meter, and would need to pay for reconnection when you leave the property.

You don't actually need your landlords approval most of the time, but it's nice to tell them anyway, but yes, when you leave it must be reconnected and the landlord may insist on a gas safety check.

Not sure that is legally correct . On a rental property removing the gas supply is akin to making structural alterations (eg loft extension). Pretty sure that a renter can't do things like that.

pochase

brewerdave said:

Astria said:

pochase said:

Are you the owner of the property or do you rent? You would need your landlord to agree to removing the gas meter, and would need to pay for reconnection when you leave the property.

You don't actually need your landlords approval most of the time, but it's nice to tell them anyway, but yes, when you leave it must be reconnected and the landlord may insist on a gas safety check.

Not sure that is legally correct . On a rental property removing the gas supply is akin to making structural alterations (eg loft extension). Pretty sure that a renter can't do things like that.

Add to that the fact that you might be adding up cost that potentially is much higher than the cover by the deposit.

- reconnection fee
- potential damage to boiler
- potential damage to radiators if they are not used for a long time
- potential damage to the pipes

Alnat1

You're allowed to change energy supplier as a tenant but I don't think your allowed to remove the energy supply.

FreeBear

Chrysalis said: My pilot light consumes just under 3.5 KwH a day.  It costs me approx (taking the time off for when I am heating water) about £7.35 a month.

There are kits available to convert a permanently on pilot light to an intermittent one for some £300-500. But... The kits are not approved for fitting to boilers in this country, so you won't find a Gas Safe engineer to do the work.

Having a permanently on pilot light myself (Baxi back boiler), I've taken to turning the gas off at the meter during the summer months. It is easy enough to turn on again if I need a tank of hot water - The rest of the time, a kettle & electric shower provides all the hot water I need. Down to 4750KWh of gas per year..

pochase

Chrysalis said:

pochase said:

Let's have a look at the cost of removing gas from the property.

Some suppliers, for example Octopus will do it for free, whereby Octopus already states if it happens more often they will not do this any longer.

For others you will have to cover the cost yourself, minimum £396 here

https://www.gasconnections.co.uk/gas-meter-removal/

After the meter is removed there is a good chance that the GNO decides that the gas pipe to your property needs to be removed. You are no longer paying for it, but they are taking the risk of maintaining it.

The Gas Network Operator (GNO) is responsible for the gas pipe that comes from the gas main into the property. Some time after your gas has been disconnected, they’ll likely visit your property to check things out, and might decide to disconnect the gas pipe that runs into the house from the gas main in the street

The cost for this seems to start at £1300 to £1800 depending on region

https://cadentgas.com/services/household-customer/disconnections

So £1700 cost going from the cheap option and a cost of £15.50 per month means you will start to save money after a bit over 9 years.

That does not take into account that heating water with electricity is much more expensive. Lets say you heat up water in the tank every 3 days for one hour, that are 30KWh of electricity. 30KWh of gas will be soon £4.29 while electricity is £13.20, £8.91 more expensive. The monthly savings just dropped to £6.59, and we lost the possibility to use "cheap" heating with gas if it becomes necessary. Compared to a modern boiler without pilot light there is almost no savings left.

The break even point just moved up to 21.5 years taking into account hot water.

If you own the property you will need to reconnect gas before you sell, otherwise you will find it hard to find buyers, or you will lose as they will pay less. Cost should be about the same to reconnect the property to gas as it was to disconnect it.

If you are renting you also will have to reconnect the property, your landlord will insist on it. 

We are now at 43 years to break even....

What are you planning to do about the central heating? Disconnecting it for years will for sure mean it will break, and I doubt that it can be repaired. So we need a new boiler, maybe new radiators if they have been drained and even the pipes could break if not used for a very long time. 

Very informative post, one could compare paying for GAS SC akin to paying a protection racket then, "you either pay this money for something you dont use or you give us 1.5k." O_o

I also wonder how enforceable it is, unless its in the energy contract that the customer pays for removal of pipe infrastructure to street on disconnection, then one could argue, the gas company doesnt need to remove the pipe and as such they are voluntarily spending the money to remove it themselves.  Also in court one could ask for proof of maintenance cost of this pipe and show proof e.g. cctv archives that show there is no maintenance done on the pipe for a long time (which is probably the case for most households).

In my case I might get away with it though as I have two neighbouring flats on the same pipe so they would probably decide to keep the pipe there to supply the other flats.

Maintenance I would argue that part of the standing charge is the cost for maintenance, so clearly stop paying for the maintenance. This is a flat fee and not for the maintenance of the grid, not for a specific part of it (your gas pipe).

The possibility that the GNO will want to remove the pipe is mentioned on the Octopus web site where they explain removing gas from the property. No clue if they will really do this, but I have seen it mentioned also in other places.

Maybe somebody who got a heat pump and removed gas from his can enlighten us about this?

Chrysalis

brewerdave said:

Astria said:

pochase said:

Are you the owner of the property or do you rent? You would need your landlord to agree to removing the gas meter, and would need to pay for reconnection when you leave the property.

You don't actually need your landlords approval most of the time, but it's nice to tell them anyway, but yes, when you leave it must be reconnected and the landlord may insist on a gas safety check.

Not sure that is legally correct . On a rental property removing the gas supply is akin to making structural alterations (eg loft extension). Pretty sure that a renter can't do things like that.

Ironically its the other way round I believe, a LL cant remove a gas supply if there is a sitting tenant without the tenant's agreement, the "legal occupier" approval is required.

I got an idea as some years back a gas safety check failed, the guy doing the check proceeded to seal the window (issue was flue too close to window) without even telling me never mind asking me if I was ok with it.  When I noticed whilst he was doing the neighbouring flat he just shouted "speak to landlord".

This led me to do a couple of things, I read the UK gas safety rules on their website, and I spoke to my sister who is a manager at one of the large energy suppliers, I had one of their engineers come round for free, and do his own inspection, he then proceeded to write a letter which damned what happened, and told me to keep that as evidence.  He told me he would be fired if he did what was done to me.

My LL didnt know what hit him, they assumed what they did was fine, but the reality was any remedy work for a failed check requires legal occupier agreement, very quickly the window was unbolted.

As it also turns out even on a health and safety issue the gas cannot be disconnected at the property by the person doing the test unless the legal occupier agrees.  That seems a bit odd but it is the law. A legal occupier is not even obliged to let the engineer in to do the tests.  The process I was told by the engineer was in that case if the legal occupier is been stubborn, they will disconnect from the street not the property at a later date.

pochase

That the landlord cannot remove gas without the tenant agreeing to it does not mean that the tenant can do this without the landlord having to agree.

Astria

brewerdave said:

Astria said:

pochase said:

Are you the owner of the property or do you rent? You would need your landlord to agree to removing the gas meter, and would need to pay for reconnection when you leave the property.

You don't actually need your landlords approval most of the time, but it's nice to tell them anyway, but yes, when you leave it must be reconnected and the landlord may insist on a gas safety check.

Not sure that is legally correct . On a rental property removing the gas supply is akin to making structural alterations (eg loft extension). Pretty sure that a renter can't do things like that.

I got the information from the fact that a friend of mine asked if the gas meter could be removed due to the fact that the heating was electric and they had an electric oven so they didn't use any gas whatsoever. They said that the gas meter belonged to the energy provider if they requested the energy provider to remove it they would give access without any kind of permission required, but they would be fully responsible to ensure a fully working gas supply was present if they left. After receiving a quote for removal and re-connection/testing of gas supply they decided not to have it removed however as it was in excess of £1000.

Ultrasonic

Chrysalis said:

Ultrasonic said:

Chrysalis said:

I am considering the same myself again, according to the UK gas safety website, decisions on gas disconnection and meters are down to the "legal occupier".  The only duty to a LL would be to reconnect it when leaving the property so the property is in the same state as it was when moving in.

I expect many light gas users are in the same boat, especially when using boilers which have pilot lights, I use approx 30-40 KwH gas a month excluding pilot light, lets call it 35, so about £2.54 worth of gas per month, sounds cheap right?

However I pay £8.17 a month in a 30 day month in SC charges. Over 3x more compared to what I pay to actually use gas.

My pilot light consumes just under 3.5 KwH a day.  It costs me approx (taking the time off for when I am heating water) about £7.35 a month.  This combined with my SC cost, means I am paying roughly £15.52 a month just to have gas available, and about £2.54 a month for the gas I use.

Please tell me thats good value.

I think the people who might jump in and think us light users are crazy, some of us are not heavy gas users, and I personally dont use central heating at all.

The SC charging system probably needs overhauling.

I don't really thinks that's a valid way to judge value. If you had a zero standing charge contract but with higher unit price such that the total cost was the same would it suddenly be better value? Of course not. To judge value you need to compare the cost of what you have to alternatives.

If you don't use central heating at all do you use alternatives to heat your home? Are you sure this isn't a more expensive option if you do?

Indeed and thats what I have done,   I simply do not heat my home I dont have an electric heater.  So essentially the consequences would be about heating water which would require me to use an immersion heater for baths, and so I did do the maths to try and estimate the cost of using that.  As you can imagine it didnt come out cheap, but it was still cheaper than what I pay now via gas, I decided to keep the gas, but this issue is bugging me hence me thinking about it again as I know its so wasteful and inefficient on the gas costs.  Given that gas prices seem to be rising faster than electric, over time it will become more and more favourable to a disconnection.

Do you live in the UK? I'm just struggling with the concept of never needing any heating at all!