Car dealership repair or rejection rights within 3 months

KeysMcK

Hi, 

I bought a used car just under 10 weeks' ago (12/5) from an independent car dealership as a cheap run around after my car was stolen. It's a 14 year old car with pretty high miles, but it was from a dealer and came with 6 months warranty so I thought it could be a cheap, safe option to get me from A to B without the risk of it being stolen. 

Within the first few weeks (6/6) I noticed that on start up it made this water 'flushing' sound, almost like a toilet being flushed behind the dash. I videoed this and sent it to the dealer who instructed me to take it to their chosen garage who would take a look. I did so, but the mechanic hadn't been given permission to do more than a quick look to make sure there was no clear and obvious signs of a major failure. The water pump was functioning, the car wasn't overheating, and he wasn't able to give it a pressure test to check if it was just a bit of air in the coolant (without working for free!)so he couldn't write that off. The the dealer asked the mechanic to advise me to simply bring it back if the symptoms get worse. 

Last week (within 2 months of purchase) I noticed this flushing sound now also happened under acceleration. I videoed this and sent it back to the dealer who instructed me again to go to his mechanic so I booked it in for today.

Fast forward to today - A more in-depth look showed the system was getting pressurised  too quickly and all things point towards either a blockage in the coolant system or head gasket failure (exhaust gas to coolant). However, the dealer once again hasn't given permission for him to look at it any further and instead told him they'd ask me to speak to my warranty company.

Firstly, no warranty covers diagnoses so I'm reluctant to take this up myself. Secondly, I don't really want to lead the repairs myself as I don't want the dealer to wash his hands of it. In my mind I should still have my 30 day CRA rights as I reported it straight away and the dealer didn't diagnose the problem. Even without these I definitely have my 6 month CRA rights for repair or rejection as it is assumed the car was sold with this fault, and its up to them to prove it wasn't. With my having videos of symptoms within weeks of purchase I'd say I have much stronger evidence than them. 

My question is - where do I stand? I'd much prefer a repair over rejection, and I appreciate that older used cars develop faults and this is just bad luck, but as a dealer shouldn't this be their back luck rather than mine?

If so, what avenues should I take to convince the dealer to play ball? They seem like reasonable people, so I'm hoping they'll be reasonable, but they're not in the business to lose money on a car so they might take come convincing. 


TIA 

Grumpy_chap

So, this is a 14yo cheap car with high miles. 
I assume the car is something of a standard family car - all the way from Fiesta - Focus - Mondeo but any brand, including premium.
How cheap is cheap?
How high is high?

Product expectation has to be linked to the reasonable expectation given the age and condition at purchase.

The local mechanic clearly won't work for free, but you could possibly have paid them to do the extra checks.  I recently had to have a coolant pressure test done and it was £17 + VAT.

You probably do now need to contact the warranty company. 
It's not initially your concern whether the warranty covers diagnostics - simply tell them the symptoms that are currently being experienced with the vehicle and ask then how they wish to resolve it.  You are not required to be knowledgeable or diagnose.
Don't go into all the detail about checks by the selling trader as if the warranty company decide they think it was a fault present or developing at time of purchase, the warranty company will likely say that is a void case.
I can't see that you have anything to lose by contacting the warranty company.

You have only bought this as an interim car to get you mobile while resolving the replacement of your stolen car.  How is that proceeding in terms of payout and acquiring a new car?
If the interim car was cheap enough (I hope it was), then the approach could well be that the car starts & runs and you'll just scrap it when the proper replacement for the stolen car is sorted.

KeysMcK said:

Hi, 

I bought a used car just under 10 weeks' ago (12/5) from an independent car dealership as a cheap run around after my car was stolen. It's a 14 year old car with pretty high miles, but it was from a dealer and came with 6 months warranty so I thought it could be a cheap, safe option to get me from A to B without the risk of it being stolen. 

Within the first few weeks (6/6) I noticed that on start up it made this water 'flushing' sound, almost like a toilet being flushed behind the dash. I videoed this and sent it to the dealer who instructed me to take it to their chosen garage who would take a look. I did so, but the mechanic hadn't been given permission to do more than a quick look to make sure there was no clear and obvious signs of a major failure. The water pump was functioning, the car wasn't overheating, and he wasn't able to give it a pressure test to check if it was just a bit of air in the coolant (without working for free!)so he couldn't write that off. The the dealer asked the mechanic to advise me to simply bring it back if the symptoms get worse. 

Last week (within 2 months of purchase) I noticed this flushing sound now also happened under acceleration. I videoed this and sent it back to the dealer who instructed me again to go to his mechanic so I booked it in for today.

Fast forward to today - A more in-depth look showed the system was getting pressurised  too quickly and all things point towards either a blockage in the coolant system or head gasket failure (exhaust gas to coolant). However, the dealer once again hasn't given permission for him to look at it any further and instead told him they'd ask me to speak to my warranty company.

Firstly, no warranty covers diagnoses so I'm reluctant to take this up myself. Secondly, I don't really want to lead the repairs myself as I don't want the dealer to wash his hands of it. In my mind I should still have my 30 day CRA rights as I reported it straight away and the dealer didn't diagnose the problem. Even without these I definitely have my 6 month CRA rights for repair or rejection as it is assumed the car was sold with this fault, and its up to them to prove it wasn't. With my having videos of symptoms within weeks of purchase I'd say I have much stronger evidence than them. 

My question is - where do I stand? I'd much prefer a repair over rejection, and I appreciate that older used cars develop faults and this is just bad luck, but as a dealer shouldn't this be their back luck rather than mine?

If so, what avenues should I take to convince the dealer to play ball? They seem like reasonable people, so I'm hoping they'll be reasonable, but they're not in the business to lose money on a car so they might take come convincing. 


TIA 

KeysMcK

Grumpy_chap said:

So, this is a 14yo cheap car with high miles. 
I assume the car is something of a standard family car - all the way from Fiesta - Focus - Mondeo but any brand, including premium.
How cheap is cheap?
How high is high?

Product expectation has to be linked to the reasonable expectation given the age and condition at purchase.

The local mechanic clearly won't work for free, but you could possibly have paid them to do the extra checks.  I recently had to have a coolant pressure test done and it was £17 + VAT.

You probably do now need to contact the warranty company. 
It's not initially your concern whether the warranty covers diagnostics - simply tell them the symptoms that are currently being experienced with the vehicle and ask then how they wish to resolve it.  You are not required to be knowledgeable or diagnose.
Don't go into all the detail about checks by the selling trader as if the warranty company decide they think it was a fault present or developing at time of purchase, the warranty company will likely say that is a void case.
I can't see that you have anything to lose by contacting the warranty company.

You have only bought this as an interim car to get you mobile while resolving the replacement of your stolen car.  How is that proceeding in terms of payout and acquiring a new car?
If the interim car was cheap enough (I hope it was), then the approach could well be that the car starts & runs and you'll just scrap it when the proper replacement for the stolen car is sorted.

KeysMcK said:

Hi, 

I bought a used car just under 10 weeks' ago (12/5) from an independent car dealership as a cheap run around after my car was stolen. It's a 14 year old car with pretty high miles, but it was from a dealer and came with 6 months warranty so I thought it could be a cheap, safe option to get me from A to B without the risk of it being stolen. 

Within the first few weeks (6/6) I noticed that on start up it made this water 'flushing' sound, almost like a toilet being flushed behind the dash. I videoed this and sent it to the dealer who instructed me to take it to their chosen garage who would take a look. I did so, but the mechanic hadn't been given permission to do more than a quick look to make sure there was no clear and obvious signs of a major failure. The water pump was functioning, the car wasn't overheating, and he wasn't able to give it a pressure test to check if it was just a bit of air in the coolant (without working for free!)so he couldn't write that off. The the dealer asked the mechanic to advise me to simply bring it back if the symptoms get worse. 

Last week (within 2 months of purchase) I noticed this flushing sound now also happened under acceleration. I videoed this and sent it back to the dealer who instructed me again to go to his mechanic so I booked it in for today.

Fast forward to today - A more in-depth look showed the system was getting pressurised  too quickly and all things point towards either a blockage in the coolant system or head gasket failure (exhaust gas to coolant). However, the dealer once again hasn't given permission for him to look at it any further and instead told him they'd ask me to speak to my warranty company.

Firstly, no warranty covers diagnoses so I'm reluctant to take this up myself. Secondly, I don't really want to lead the repairs myself as I don't want the dealer to wash his hands of it. In my mind I should still have my 30 day CRA rights as I reported it straight away and the dealer didn't diagnose the problem. Even without these I definitely have my 6 month CRA rights for repair or rejection as it is assumed the car was sold with this fault, and its up to them to prove it wasn't. With my having videos of symptoms within weeks of purchase I'd say I have much stronger evidence than them. 

My question is - where do I stand? I'd much prefer a repair over rejection, and I appreciate that older used cars develop faults and this is just bad luck, but as a dealer shouldn't this be their back luck rather than mine?

If so, what avenues should I take to convince the dealer to play ball? They seem like reasonable people, so I'm hoping they'll be reasonable, but they're not in the business to lose money on a car so they might take come convincing. 


TIA 

Yeah I should have given more info sorry! Lexus is250, 2009, 140,000, full service history and 1 previous owner. £3000. The dealer had 4.5 stars on Autotrader etc. it had a water pump and new exhaust within about 6 months (on reflection I now think they did that work, had HG diagnosed, so traded it in rather than spend more money)

The idea was that I’d have the car until I can get an electric car then sell it on. I’m clawing myself out of debt so it was never meant to be a £3000 hit. Especially after a few weeks. I just thought I’d be covered by CRA (which I’m hoping I am). Something as catastrophic as head gasket failure surely should be even if it’s an older, £3k car. 

I do agree the warranty needs contacting and I’m happy for it to be used, but there’s a max claim, excess etc. I’d much rather they contact the warranty (it’s a company they have a good relationship with) and claim themselves taking the responsibility. It’s something I know this dealer has done before. 

The mechanic is the one they use for all of their cars and is very much fighting my corner, but of course I wouldn’t expect him to do work he’s not being paid for. If I’d known it could have been that cheap I would have but he didn’t even suggest it. Even he’s said I should be stern and stand my ground. I just don’t know what recourse I have (if any) if this doesn’t work. 

Surely the car is rejectable, so there’s leverage for the repair?