Best family automatic around £10k

Skintdognotmillionaire

Herzlos said:

Skintdognotmillionaire said:

The suggestion for an EV is interesting, I have looked into it previously.

My round trip is 230 miles in total; I do this 2 days a week and it is completed in 1 go (I pick up/drop off my son, turn around and come home). When you consider this it puts me into the realms of the premium EVs and those with large batteries which are starting at well over £45,000 new. 

I have looked at the maths and I don't think an EV can ever work for me; Even considering the tax cuts and the reduction in the cost of fuel, it would take many years to recoup the extra capital expenditure vs. an older diesel car. 

The fuel saving is 'roughly' £200 a month so at current fuel and electric prices so by my maths I'd have to own an EV for over 15 years (375,000 miles) to break even on total cost vs. a £10,000 diesel. I doubt an EV has the reliability to last that long. 

Yeah, 230 miles in a single sitting is a big ask. An MG5 should get you about 200 miles so you'd need to stop somewhere and add another 30-ish miles of charge (which shouldn't take more than about 10 minutes). You can get one from about £33k new, or a £25k used with a PCP of about £400/month, so that £200/month fuel saving may cover the difference between the finance gap between it and a £10k car.

I don't think your saving math is quite right, as the EV would be worth significantly more than the diesel at any point in the depreciation curve.

That said, it's still pretty close so a diesel is likely your best option.

You’re right I didn’t factor depreciation. But I don’t tend to as my aim is always to run a car to death (in which case it’s with naff all anyway, electric or diesel) 

I considered the ID3 which does 245 on paper with the standard battery, but the salesperson told me it’s only 215 with the aircon running and I hate to think what that capacity might drop to with 1000s of miles on the battery.

I’m also planning to buy HP not PCP as 25,000 doesn’t go down well with PCP lenders.

Skintdognotmillionaire

Grumpy_chap said:

Petriix said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Petriix said:

Then there's the tax benefits - assuming those £25k miles are business related. 

I am not sure that there are necessary outstanding tax benefits, even if doing business mileage.  The OP appears to be buying their own car and not mentioned the potential of a SS scheme being available.

What tax benefits did you have in mind for the OP to take advantage of?

I am not saying an EV is not worthy of consideration, but the decision should take into account actual factors that apply in their case and not just factors that may apply in other cases.  

If the OP is doing business miles and can claim standard mileage rates, that will be helpful to the financial balance.

Depending on the scenario... If you buy through a business then the entire purchase price is tax deductible, otherwise salary sacrifice is extremely tax efficient at 2% BIK. 

Why do you persist with "electric car under tax benefits is cheap" as the solution to every question?
Yes, the tax benefits for an EV can be outstanding for those that can take advantage of them. 
That simply does not seem to apply here.
The OP is looking for a £10k 2015 or newer family car - clearly a personal purchase and nothing at all to suggest that the OP can take advantage of salary sacrifice or buy through a business.

I am employed by a small company that don’t have any company vehicle scheme in place. 

I’m also self employed on the side but this is consulting done from home and doesn’t require travel and I imagine that means I wouldn’t qualify for any tax reductions on a company vehicle (though I’m not expert on tax affairs).

daveyjp

You don't get much for £10k, you get even less once you specify a reliable family sized car with a reliable automatic gearbox and decent mpg.

I'd forego a few mpg and go for a Prius+.

Herzlos

Skintdognotmillionaire said:

Herzlos said:

Skintdognotmillionaire said:

The suggestion for an EV is interesting, I have looked into it previously.

My round trip is 230 miles in total; I do this 2 days a week and it is completed in 1 go (I pick up/drop off my son, turn around and come home). When you consider this it puts me into the realms of the premium EVs and those with large batteries which are starting at well over £45,000 new. 

I have looked at the maths and I don't think an EV can ever work for me; Even considering the tax cuts and the reduction in the cost of fuel, it would take many years to recoup the extra capital expenditure vs. an older diesel car. 

The fuel saving is 'roughly' £200 a month so at current fuel and electric prices so by my maths I'd have to own an EV for over 15 years (375,000 miles) to break even on total cost vs. a £10,000 diesel. I doubt an EV has the reliability to last that long. 

Yeah, 230 miles in a single sitting is a big ask. An MG5 should get you about 200 miles so you'd need to stop somewhere and add another 30-ish miles of charge (which shouldn't take more than about 10 minutes). You can get one from about £33k new, or a £25k used with a PCP of about £400/month, so that £200/month fuel saving may cover the difference between the finance gap between it and a £10k car.

I don't think your saving math is quite right, as the EV would be worth significantly more than the diesel at any point in the depreciation curve.

That said, it's still pretty close so a diesel is likely your best option.

You’re right I didn’t factor depreciation. But I don’t tend to as my aim is always to run a car to death (in which case it’s with naff all anyway, electric or diesel) 

I considered the ID3 which does 245 on paper with the standard battery, but the salesperson told me it’s only 215 with the aircon running and I hate to think what that capacity might drop to with 1000s of miles on the battery.

I’m also planning to buy HP not PCP as 25,000 doesn’t go down well with PCP lenders.

Battery degradation is a lot less than previously anticipated. Most cars have a larger battery than quoted to allow for some more load balancing too.

Even then, your EV will likely still be worth a lot of money when it's range drops below what you'd need (~150ish miles).

[Deleted User]

ontheroad1970 said:

[Deleted User] said:

ontheroad1970 said:

To the EV evangelists, I'm not sure the Zoe etc is the way to go on this occasion, OP is doing nearly all motorway miles and 25k a year.  Family sized vehicles in EV form are either 40k+ or not here yet.

I suggested a used 40kWh Leaf. Half the price you suggest, going down as prices get back to normal.

On 25k a year mileage the OP would be saving £5k/year on fossil fuel, so after a couple of years it would have cost the same as a fossil car.

Get a loan for it, after a couple of years the loan is paid off and the OP has an extra 5k/year in their pocket.

In my opinion, a Leaf won't be great for motorway munching  - electric cars are at their best in towns, and won't be a spacious family car either.  I only have one child and I wouldn't choose one, both for that reason and the motorway journey.  I drive from Wales to Heathrow regularly.  I rarely stop on the way there.  

Finally, get in the real world and read the budget the OP is talking about.  

You EVheads need some maths lessons.  Half of £40k isn't £10k.  

The OP's budget is £10k.  An electric car may well pay dividends over time.  It doesn't give the OP another £10k now.  Get out of cloud cuckoo land.

I see you have never owned an EV. They work fine on the motorway, especially considering the mileage that the OP is going.

If only you could borrow money somehow, then you could make better decisions that save you money in the long run. Oh well.

natlol

I have a Rapid Spaceback but a 2016. Did cambelt last October for 400 + 180ish for the service I think it was. Mine is a petrol 1.2tsi 110 so the water pump is on the other side so doesn’t need changing. That was at a Skoda dealer but I always negotiate the prices down. I have an Odbeleven dongle that does live monitoring and programming on Vag cars. Not expensive and you could use the live data to help determine what is causing your issue. It sounds electrical but hard to know without more information.

CKhalvashi

Skintdognotmillionaire said:

The suggestion for an EV is interesting, I have looked into it previously.

My round trip is 230 miles in total; I do this 2 days a week and it is completed in 1 go (I pick up/drop off my son, turn around and come home). When you consider this it puts me into the realms of the premium EVs and those with large batteries which are starting at well over £45,000 new. 

I have looked at the maths and I don't think an EV can ever work for me; Even considering the tax cuts and the reduction in the cost of fuel, it would take many years to recoup the extra capital expenditure vs. an older diesel car. 

The fuel saving is 'roughly' £200 a month so at current fuel and electric prices so by my maths I'd have to own an EV for over 15 years (375,000 miles) to break even on total cost vs. a £10,000 diesel. I doubt an EV has the reliability to last that long. 

I can agree with this in your circumstances.

I do similar miles (depending on how often I can be bothered to go into the office, but a minimum of 3 days a week and 3 from home at the moment), but structured very differently, despite both having quite a bit of motorway driving.

A diesel mile muncher may be the best option in your case (but do look at the Ioniq Hybrid, not sure of overall MPG though), my Ioniq EV is the best option in mine.

ontheroad1970

[Deleted User] said:

ontheroad1970 said:

[Deleted User] said:

ontheroad1970 said:

To the EV evangelists, I'm not sure the Zoe etc is the way to go on this occasion, OP is doing nearly all motorway miles and 25k a year.  Family sized vehicles in EV form are either 40k+ or not here yet.

I suggested a used 40kWh Leaf. Half the price you suggest, going down as prices get back to normal.

On 25k a year mileage the OP would be saving £5k/year on fossil fuel, so after a couple of years it would have cost the same as a fossil car.

Get a loan for it, after a couple of years the loan is paid off and the OP has an extra 5k/year in their pocket.

In my opinion, a Leaf won't be great for motorway munching  - electric cars are at their best in towns, and won't be a spacious family car either.  I only have one child and I wouldn't choose one, both for that reason and the motorway journey.  I drive from Wales to Heathrow regularly.  I rarely stop on the way there.  

Finally, get in the real world and read the budget the OP is talking about.  

You EVheads need some maths lessons.  Half of £40k isn't £10k.  

The OP's budget is £10k.  An electric car may well pay dividends over time.  It doesn't give the OP another £10k now.  Get out of cloud cuckoo land.

I see you have never owned an EV. They work fine on the motorway, especially considering the mileage that the OP is going.

If only you could borrow money somehow, then you could make better decisions that save you money in the long run. Oh well.

I don't need to have owned an EV to have done my research.  I was looking at the possibility of using part of an inheritance to buy one outright, but didn't want to spend it all.  I also don't want a poverty spec car with the range I would need to do South West Wales to Heathrow and back non stop each way. That's my most regular trip for work, and I also often go to the lake district where places to top up with electricity are harder to come by. 

Motorway speeds create more drag which tends to have a bigger impact on electric than on others.  As I say, I'm not anti EV though your obvious bias could push people the other way.  Electric isn't a licence to print money.  As it stands at the moment, it doesn't work for everyone.  Give it a few more years and it will be closer.  

Borrowing money is not necessarily the answer.  It's all down to job security.  I'm self employed in a sphere that was pretty much unsupported during the pandemic with a risk of my livelihood being affected again if there is a large resurgence.  So forgive me if I am disinclined to borrow money unnecessarily.  I've spent £20k on a car (3 years old) that will do me for another 6 years at least and it is 100% mine without borrowing anything.  I'll see where things are in 4/5 years.  

Like I say, electric is ready for the majority of people.  My wife is a prime example, but she won't be persuaded on the issue, so she will hold on to her Edge for a few more years at least.  But should I want to drive the car to Heathrow and then drive it back after returning from a foreign business trip, I'd like the option of not having to stop at Reading on the way back to and hoping that there is a spare charger that is functioning.  

Skintdognotmillionaire

natlol said:

I have a Rapid Spaceback but a 2016. Did cambelt last October for 400 + 180ish for the service I think it was. Mine is a petrol 1.2tsi 110 so the water pump is on the other side so doesn’t need changing. That was at a Skoda dealer but I always negotiate the prices down. I have an Odbeleven dongle that does live monitoring and programming on Vag cars. Not expensive and you could use the live data to help determine what is causing your issue. It sounds electrical but hard to know without more information.

I think it could be electrical. I could try something like a odbeleven. It would certainly be more cost effective than changing cars.

My worry is that every time I’ve broken down I’ve either had recovery out or managed to get it going and driven straight to Skoda - in all instances they’ve checked the diagnostics and seen absolutely nothing recorded. 

The intermittent nature suggests electric but there is no rhyme or reason; having lived with this fault now for 2 years and all the stress and cost it brings - sometimes it disappears for 4-5 months and then reappears. Other times it happens 5-6 times a day. 

From all my research my best bet has been something to do with the Automatic Gearbox inhibitor switch but in reality I have no idea.

Petriix

Grumpy_chap said:

Petriix said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Petriix said:

Then there's the tax benefits - assuming those £25k miles are business related. 

I am not sure that there are necessary outstanding tax benefits, even if doing business mileage.  The OP appears to be buying their own car and not mentioned the potential of a SS scheme being available.

What tax benefits did you have in mind for the OP to take advantage of?

I am not saying an EV is not worthy of consideration, but the decision should take into account actual factors that apply in their case and not just factors that may apply in other cases.  

If the OP is doing business miles and can claim standard mileage rates, that will be helpful to the financial balance.

Depending on the scenario... If you buy through a business then the entire purchase price is tax deductible, otherwise salary sacrifice is extremely tax efficient at 2% BIK. 

Why do you persist with "electric car under tax benefits is cheap" as the solution to every question?
Yes, the tax benefits for an EV can be outstanding for those that can take advantage of them. 
That simply does not seem to apply here.
The OP is looking for a £10k 2015 or newer family car - clearly a personal purchase and nothing at all to suggest that the OP can take advantage of salary sacrifice or buy through a business.

My posts, while admittedly repetitive, are entirely logical. All I ever say is essentially 'have you considered an EV? Do the sums and see if you could save money'.

Most people who drive 25k miles are doing a significant amount of work related driving so it's a legitimate question. The bulk of the savings are on fuel but potential tax efficiencies can be significant.

Every 1000 miles at 40mpg costs ~ £210 in petrol vs ~ £20 in electricity. Many people aren't aware of how big the savings are so I'll continue to suggest that people do the sums for their own unique circumstances.

There are myriad reasons why someone wouldn't want an EV; some logical and some irrational. But this is a money saving forum. I, therefore, find it baffling that people always recommend vehicles which run at over 20p per mile over those which cost 1/10th of the price in fuel.