Buying House which needs full refurbishment - Some questions!

akorn77

Hi, I'm due to complete on a typical terraced house in London suburb, which requires full refurbishment. I'll be living in it on my own. The rear and loft have NOT been extended before. I've been thinking through the refurbishment and had several questions, that I would appreciate some insight and experience on. Apologies in advance, quite a long list! 

1. House currently has no central heating. Is it cost effective to buy a heat pump rather than a gas boiler? 
2. Same as above. A few people have recommend getting underfloor heating rather than radiators. Is this worthwhile? Is maintenance or fixing any issues in future harder if its under floor? 
3. In the 1980's the owners added a small makeshift conservatory/extension, which did not require planning permission at the time. If I wanted to fix it up a bit without changing the dimensions/layout, would I need to apply for any kind of planning permission? 
   
4. At the end of the garden there is a large garage (15m2) which needs replacing. Do I need permission to fix it back up to the same dimensions? 
5. At the moment, I cant afford to do the rear extension as prices have gone up (I was quoted circa £75,000 for a 20m2 extension). Instead I'm planning to replace the existing kitchen with cheap units from somewhere like Wickes, incase I need to bin it 5-10 years down the line in order to do the extension. Does this seem like a sensible idea? Or should I go ahead and get a half-decent kitchen? 
6. The house was built in the 1930's and the current owner lived there for some 50 years. Given how old it is, should I also be replacing all the floorboards? 
7. Given that its a terraced house, is it worthwhile installing sound insulation boards onto the the internal walls? In my current terraced house, I can hear through the walls sometimes and I absolutely hate it. 

Thanks! 

Bendy_House

1) At the moment, no. But prices of ASHPs will, almost certainly, tumble. Octopus are opening a new factory, and reckon they'll get them down to a similar level to gas boilers in a couple of years?

What I WOULD do is to size the rads to also work with ASHP, and that means 'oversize'. Ie, you want these rads to output enough heat, but with a lower water temp (as you get from ASHPs.) UFH is perfect for this as it naturally runs on a much lower temp than standard rads.

2) Worthwhile? Prob yes, since it's ideal for use with green energy sources, and is also just pretty damned comfy. I'd have it, no question. BUT, there are also tales of caution - lack of control, unexpectedly high energy costs, etc. This needs research, because I don't know what the truth is. And neither does Boris.

I wouldn't worry about reliability, tho', as it tends to be made up of continuous lengths of plastic pipe, which will last 'forever'.

3) I wouldn't even ask.

4) I still wouldn't ask.

5) Got to be your call. I guess it depends how well-planned the future is, and whether you can add to the kitchen units, rather than start again from scratch. I 'suspect' it's best going cheap for the mo', and then splashing out as part of the bigger plan.

6) Not unless you need to. Eg, woodworm...

7) As part of a major refurb, I'd suggest YES. It's going to be messy and disruptive anyway, so not a biggie doing this. More importantly, tho', is THERMAL insulation on all the external walls, under the ground floor if you can (would be done as part of UFH anyway), or at least a layer over the floor.

Ceilings too...

Doozergirl

My answers: 

1.  At the moment, not really because electricity is still incredibly expensive when compared to gas.  Gas boilers are also infinitely cheaper than ASHPs. 

More importantly though is that ASHPs run at lower temperatures and your house absolutely *needs* to be able to retain heat.

without a shadow of a doubt, the most important thing you can do is insulate your house as much as possible.  Every single room.  This is the one and only opportunity you will be given to do it properly.    

2.  UFH is great but again, you need your house to be insulated to be able to retain the lower temperature of heat provided.  It sets you up for the future when you eventually replace your gas boiler too.  

3.  On the face of what you say, with no layout changes, no you would not need additional permissions.  If this room is separated by an external quality door and you wanted to open it up to the main house then you would need building control approval for this as you would need to upgrade the insulation to turn it into a 'proper' extension.  

You might want to start a new thread nearer the time if you want more specific advice.  

"Don't ask" is not an answer.  You do well to ask.  Getting it wrong is an expensive mistake.  

4. Again, on the face of what you are saying, if you replace it immediately, like-for-like, then planning permission would not be necessary.  If you pull it down and wait, then the replacement may well fall under something called 'permitted development' for which there are specific criteria.  See here: https://www.planningportal.co.uk/permission/common-projects/outbuildings/planning-permission
(the portal is currently down for maintenance but should be up and running  by 8pm). 

5. In your position I would probably look to ebay right now for a decent but second hand kitchen.  I have found absolute bargains in the past - a hugely expensive ex-photoshoot Mereway kitchen for £500.  That doesn't happen every day but there will be a good option for you.  

There are also dedicated used kitchen websites that sell off ex-display kitchens.  Have a google for them.  

You will need to have some imagination as you're unlikely to find a perfect fit as they are, but units can be rearranged!  You might need to resort to the old fashioned arranging of paper units on scaled graph paper... but it will be financially worth it.  

Another option, probably less likely is to consider if you can incorporate decent new units now into your future kitchen, by rearranging them, or using them to become a utility room.

The cheapest, best value for money units if you do choose to buy 'new but cheap' will be from Ikea.  Hands down.  

6.  Isn't something that usually needs to be done unless they have rot.  If you want UFH, you need to insulate the sub floor and your finished floor will be over the boards and UFH.  

7.   It is very difficult to retrospectively insulate for sound travel between twrraced houses.  Sound doesn't just travel through walls, it will travel in the spaces between joists on the party walls and also vibrate through the joists themselves.   People who try this don't often report successful results without a complete overhaul.  

Insulation on your external walls is money well spent right now, and it won't be cheap.  That needs to be your priority.  I genuinely believe that energy inefficient houses will start to devalue heavily over the next couple of decades.  Put the work in now to protect its value and keep your bills down.  

FreeBear

Bendy_House said: 1) At the moment, no. But prices of ASHPs will, almost certainly, tumble. Octopus are opening a new factory, and reckon they'll get them down to a similar level to gas boilers in a couple of years?

ASHPs are currently close to the price of a gas boiler - https://www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/samsung-ehs-5kw-r32-air-source-heat-pump/ - But there are a limited number of installers, so they get to charge a premium for their work. Running costs are another issue. Whilst the manufacturers & installers will often quote COP figures of 3-3.5 ( for each KW of electricity put in, you get 3-3.5KW of heat out), in reality, the COP is more likely to be around 2, especially during a real cold winter.

If the system is incorrectly specified/installed/set-up, the COP could even drop to 1.

Given time, and hopefully with better training across the board, bad installations will be a thing of the past, and ASHPs will be easier to configure. In the meantime, insulate, insulate, and insulate a bit more. Then go round plugging the draughts at source.

Bendy_House

What's a 'full refurb', Akorn? Stripping old plaster from the external walls, for example? In which case, adding insulation to these before reskimming is quick and simple. It should transform your house.

As FB says, plug all air gaps - insulate below or even above floors with a continuous sheet; even 8mm fibreboard underlay, panels, sealed between them and - more importantly - around the perimeter before replacing skirting boards, will make a huge difference.

Ceilings, from the simplest of adding loft insulation on top, to fixing insulated board to the undersides (usually the best way if, for example, you have sloping ceilings, will again be transformative. That HAS to be your priority moving forward.

Rads chosen to provide adequate output at ~40oC water temp. That should work via most 'green' systems, such as PV, Solar, and ASHPs. These will almost certainly require a 'Heat Store', a large, well insulated, hot water storage tank. This is charged up by whatever source(s), and is then used to serve the house. Best investigate this thoroughly, and make room for it!

Bigphil1474

OP, as above, noise insulation is likely to be a waste of money as the noise will travel where you haven't insulated. I've lived in a terraced house for 25 years and the noise from the neighbours is purely down to whatever neighbours we have living there I'm afraid. 

FreeBear

Bendy_House said: What's a 'full refurb', Akorn? Stripping old plaster from the external walls, for example? In which case, adding insulation to these before reskimming is quick and simple. It should transform your house.

Don't forget, if you strip more than 25% of plaster off an external wall in a room, building regulations kick in - This will require a minimum level of insulation to be added where technically possible and has a payback time of less than 15 years.

For a solid brick wall (~230mm thick), you'd need around 75mm of Celotex/Kingspan type insulation on the walls. Wrap a 25mm layer round the window/door reveals to kill any cold spots in those areas.

diystarter7

Underfloor heating is a must for very large properties. It can benefit smaller property as well as saves wall space EG no rads and you can make new windows, put furniture where you want within reason and save money on designer rads

About the reliability, it's the joins you need to be careful with and ensure the tiles/wood floor is not rubbing on top of the pipes.

I guess on balance where underfloor heating is water heated, it is more reliable as no leaky rads, valves, furring, pinholes etc.

Obne of the family built a big house, I think 8 thousand ssuare feet on three levels about 12 years ago, I don't recall them ever mentioning a leak under the tiles, floor boards other than oe of the joints near their massive boiler.

For aesthetics they bought those mirrored rads for the massive hallway but otherwise all underfloor.

If we were moving and a full refurb, I'd go for part underfloor and a few rads for appearance but possibly not - so IMHO, go for it

Phil4432

Nothing too much to say that others haven't already;  work on getting the order of the refurb right.  For example, carpets should go down last.

Maybe do heating first, making sure floorboards are taken up and put down properly.  Consider an asbestos survey for safety, also old lead paint when sanding.

Waste of money getting kitchen units to be replaced in 5 years.  Just do it now, saving time and money in future.

Good idea with the sound insulation.

Longwalker

Wouldn't touch UFH or an ASHP, unless the house was insulated within an inch of its life, that means double glazing, wall, floor and ceiling insulation. A house of this age has very little insulation and what you can add without structural work, doesn't always help and can cause problems - condensation for example ( my house was built in 98 and whilst we insulated the roof space a lot better, we are getting mold spots on the upstairs ceilings where we dont run heating )

The new extension built a couple of years ago, where we have underfloor and serious amounts of insulation in the wools and ceilings, stays dry and warm with no heating