What to ask about lease before offer?

Helplesssheep

Hi,

I am viewing some properties this week. One of them has a section of a private garden, and the estate agent explained vaguely that essentially the house has the full garden as "they don't know who owns" the rest. This sounds pretty dubious to me. Any thoughts on the questions I should ask here to make sure nothing dodgy is going on, particularly if I do want to put an offer in? I wondered if it raises questions about who the freeholder is -i.e. maybe they don't know?

eddddy

Helplesssheep said:

I wondered if it raises questions about who the freeholder is -i.e. maybe they don't know?

You can ask who the freeholder is, and whether they employ a management company, and how the service charge works, and how the building is insured, and how maintenance gets done, etc.

The estate agent probably won't know 'off the top of their head', but they can ask the seller.

Helplesssheep said:

One of them has a section of a private garden, and the estate agent explained vaguely that essentially the house has the full garden as "they don't know who owns" the rest. This sounds pretty dubious to me. Any thoughts on the questions I should ask here to make sure nothing dodgy is going on, particularly if I do want to put an offer in?

What do you think might be dodgy?

I guess the seller knows which section of the garden that they 'own' or are allowed to use, but has never specifically asked their neighbours which sections of the garden they 'own' or are responsible for. (Or maybe the seller knows, but the estate agent hasn't asked the seller.)


More generally, you also need to know the lease length and ground rent terms. If you think you might ever want to let the flat, or to keep a pet - maybe ask what the lease says about that too.

Helplesssheep

It seemed dodgy to me they didn’t know who owned the rest of the garden? The seller basically has had full control and treated it like a private garden as it isn’t in the neighbours’ use. That’s what I understand right now 

It is a converted flat - there are neighbours on the other floor but the other section of the garden isn’t theirs, it sounds like. 

user1977

Is it a big problem from your point of view? i.e. if it turned out you no longer had sole use of the "uncertain" part of the garden, would that affect your decision to buy or the price?

Helplesssheep

No, there would still be a private section. Just wanted to check it didn’t sound like a red flag to anyone as it seems a bit random! 

eddddy

Helplesssheep said:

It seemed dodgy to me they didn’t know who owned the rest of the garden? The seller basically has had full control and treated it like a private garden as it isn’t in the neighbours’ use. That’s what I understand right now 

It is a converted flat - there are neighbours on the other floor but the other section of the garden isn’t theirs, it sounds like. 

In simple terms, there will be a freeholder who owns the freehold of the building and the garden. The freeholder will have granted 2 leases - one to each flat.

The freeholder will have chosen what to do with the garden. Possibilities include:

• The freeholder included all the garden in one of the leases (so one leaseholder 'owns' all the garden)

• The freeholder included a section of the garden in each of the leases (so the leaseholders each 'own' a section of the garden)

• The freeholder didn't include the garden in either lease - but the lease allows one of the leaseholders to use it all

• The freeholder didn't include the garden in either lease - but the leases allow both leaseholders to share the use of all of it

• The freeholder didn't include the garden in either lease - but the leases allow each leaseholder to use a section of it

I guess it's possible that the 'other' section of the garden is either 'owned' by the neighbour, or the neighbour has the right to use it - but the neighbour isn't interested in the garden, so never uses it. (Perhaps that's more likely if the other flat is rented out to a tenant.)

Helplesssheep said:

No, there would still be a private section. Just wanted to check it didn’t sound like a red flag to anyone as it seems a bit random! 

Based on what you've said - I can't see any reason for a red flag.

user1977

Helplesssheep said:

No, there would still be a private section. Just wanted to check it didn’t sound like a red flag to anyone as it seems a bit random! 

It's fairly commonplace for a shared/allocated garden's use in practice not to adhere exactly to what the titles say. Maybe things have happened historically and nobody's bothered to go through the hassle of amending the titles. Maybe one neighbour is keener on gardening than the others. At this stage it's a point for the solicitors to clarify (but needn't be a showstopper).

canaldumidi

Have you downloaded the freehold (and leasehold?) titles? And read them? And the Title Plans? Do the Title Plans match the garden boundaries?

If there's a lease, have you read it?

You should do all the above before making an offer.

By allmeans ask questions, but EAs usually only know what the sellers tell them (which they've forgotten, plus the agent who signed up the seller won't be the junior conducting the viewings, who will not have been told by his boss....).

So do your own due diligence!

youth_leader

Do check the lease and Title plans very carefully.  A friend has bought a ground floor flat, in a converted house, and the garden is split into two by a low fence. Her upstairs neighbour is proving to be most unpleasant and she cannot get any peace on her 'side'.