Gladstones LBC for 4 year old PCN that was never received

Daffodil78

Hi, I've read through the advice and followed the steps to request a SAR from the parking company. We have now received a SAR, but from the solicitors, so I'm confused. Is it normal that the solicitor would send the SAR?

I believe my next step is to acknowledge the service via MCOL.

I'm just unsure because we don't have much of a defence. The parking notice is from June 2018 in a city about an hour away from home. My husband may have been in that city on that day, but it was four years ago and he doesn't remember where he would have parked or what signage there may have been. 

I guess my question is, how do we defend against something we can't remember.

For info:

• He did not receive a PCN from anyone
• First contact was a 'letter before claim' from Gladstones on behalf of Defence Systems Limited t/a Park Watch 4 years after the 'offence'
• We sent a SAR request to Park Watch, but have not received a reply
• We sent a letter and email to Gladstones informing them of the SAR sent to their client and we received the SAR info back from Gladstones, not Park Watch
• They have not sent a photograph or any proof that my husband's vehicle was where they claim it was parked. All the SAR info is about them proving my husband's vehicle and address

Should we just complete the MCOL anyway, or is there a different route in this situation.

PS I have read and searched the forum a heap before posting this. I respect your time and effort put in to helping people with these claims. Thank you.

Fruitcake

What happened when the defendant complained to the landowner?

Where did the alleged event occur? It might have cropped up here before.

If you are at LBC stage then you don't have a live claim yet, so you cannot do the AoS. Please confirm this is the case, and that you have not yet received a claim from the Northampton CCBC.

Note that the person against whom the claim is made must respond at all times. You can help, but it must be the defendant's name on the responses.


Did you send the SAR to the DPO of Park Watch? If so, has 30 days passed yet? They are not obliged to reply before then.

Is/was the address on the vehicle correct on the V5C? Don't guess, go and check. An error on the document, or not updating it after moving house is the most common reason for not receiving the NTK.

Have you found the guide to court written by bargepole in the second post of the NEWBIES? You should familiarise yourself with the process.

Have you found the template defence Announcement yet? It is 95% written for you. You only need to produce your own version of paragraphs 2 and 3, then post just the parts you have amended here for checking.

Do not answer the next question on the forum.
Are you absolutely sure you know who was driving, and are absolutely sure it could not have been someone else with permission to drive, even if you do not know who it was?
This is only relevant if the NTK was non-PoFA compliant. You won't know if it was or was not until the PPC provides you with a copy.

Get photos of the site and signage. Use Google Street view to see f there are any useful historic images.

Have you complained to your MP yet?

Set up a throw away email account such as gmail just for dealing with this PCN. 

Umkomaas

I respect your time and effort put in to helping people with these claims.

The real driving force in keeping us working hard every day to help other people with their problems is knowing that the effort we put in has worked, or if not, how we can tweak the advice to be more effective in the future. We only know that from feedback. 

We seem not to have been provided with any such feedback on the previous parking charge/number plate 'cloning' thread for which you asked for and received forum assistance. Any chance you could update that thread please, to bring it to a final conclusion?  Here it is:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6248578/parking-charge-photo-has-been-photoshopped-to-show-my-husbands-reg/p1

Daffodil78

Hi, thank you for such a quick reply. I will answer below...

What happened when the defendant complained to the landowner?

He didn't complain to the land owner. I think we may have missed a step. He received the LBC without ever receiving a PCN, so when reading the Newbies thread I went straight to the LBC section. I see this may have been the wrong thing to do. Should I still complain the landowner, or is this now pointless?

Where did the alleged event occur? It might have cropped up here before.

Crossgate Shopping Centre, Leeds. I have searched the forum for other examples, but didn't find anything that seemed to fit with our situation.

If you are at LBC stage then you don't have a live claim yet, so you cannot do the AoS. Please confirm this is the case, and that you have not yet received a claim from the Northampton CCBC.

Correct. Nothing has been received from Northampton CCBC, so my mistake in thinking I had to do the AoS next. When I read the Newbie thread I saw the AoS after the LBC section and thought this was what I need to do next. I stand corrected.

Note that the person against whom the claim is made must respond at all times. You can help, but it must be the defendant's name on the responses.

Yes, absolutely. Everything has been done and signed by the owner of the vehicle. He works away all week and I help by typing, reading and responding. He signs things at weekends or when he's home. 

Did you send the SAR to the DPO of Park Watch? If so, has 30 days passed yet? They are not obliged to reply before then.

Yes. The letter requested SAR sent to Park Watch and Galdstones was dated 13th May 2022. I have not received any paper correspondence from Park Watch at all, ever. I have only received paper letters from Gladstones.
On 19th May 2022 Park Watch replied by email saying they needed proof of identity. We replied stating that a hard copy of the letter, plus the V5 document, was already in the post to them. They replied the same day stating:

"Thank you for confirming.
In that case, we will await receipt of your letter by post. The one calendar month time limit to complete your DSAR won’t begin until we receive it.
Yours sincerely
Subject Access Request Co-ordinator
dpo@parkwatch.co.uk"

We have not received anything else from them since. Just the SAR info from Gladstones dated 29th June 2022. Its this normal? Does the SAR info come from the solicitor or should it come from Park Watch? 

Is/was the address on the vehicle correct on the V5C? Don't guess, go and check. An error on the document, or not updating it after moving house is the most common reason for not receiving the NTK.

Yes. The address is correct, but the name wasn't. We sent a copy of his driving licence as proof of correct name. The V5 shows his nickname because he stupidly wrote that name instead of his proper name. Stupid mistake, but can't undo what's done. They have not said this is an issue. The NTK would still have been delivered as we have lots of mail delivered in his nickname.

Have you found the guide to court written by bargepole in the second post of the NEWBIES? You should familiarise yourself with the process.

Yes, I found the name 'bargepole' mentioned twice in section 2 of the newbie thread. I clicked on both links and read them. The first one was about someone parking in a space they have a key fob to access and the second one was about the defence used in a case with Gladstones. I believe I am not yet at this point, but the posts are helpful and informative. Thank you.

Have you found the template defence Announcement yet? It is 95% written for you. You only need to produce your own version of paragraphs 2 and 3, then post just the parts you have amended here for checking.

Yes. I found this document and wrote the following for no.2 & no.3, but it feels very weak as a defence. Can you give feedback here or should I post this somewhere else?

"The facts as known to the Defendant:

2. It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper and driver of the vehicle in question.

3. The defendant does not recall whether or not he was in the Leeds area four years ago on 1st June 2018.

The defendant has not received a PCN or NTK.

The defendant has not received a photograph of the vehicle at the location stated on the LBC from Gladstones."

Do not answer the next question on the forum.

Are you absolutely sure you know who was driving, and are absolutely sure it could not have been someone else with permission to drive, even if you do not know who it was?

This is only relevant if the NTK was non-PoFA compliant. You won't know if it was or was not until the PPC provides you with a copy.

The PPC has not sent anything to us. No NTK, no SAR info. 

Get photos of the site and signage. Use Google Street view to see f there are any useful historic images.

We have looked on Google maps and located the shopping centre, but we have no idea where the PCN was meant to have taken place. The address given does not have a road name. We live over an hour away and don't know the area at all. We're guessing he must have been there on this day (they don't actually make the whole thing up - or do they?) We are totally prepared to go and photograph the area if needed, but don't want to set off without a more specific idea about where it happened.

Have you complained to your MP yet?

No. Would really rather not, but will do so if needed.

Set up a throw away email account such as gmail just for dealing with this PCN. 

I have already been using my personal email in communication. Is it too late to change to a throwaway? I'm guessing it may be pointless to do this now?



Thank you again for the help given. 

Daffodil78

Umkomaas said:

I respect your time and effort put in to helping people with these claims.

The real driving force in keeping us working hard every day to help other people with their problems is knowing that the effort we put in has worked, or if not, how we can tweak the advice to be more effective in the future. We only know that from feedback. 

We seem not to have been provided with any such feedback on the previous parking charge/number plate 'cloning' thread for which you asked for and received forum assistance. Any chance you could update that thread please, to bring it to a final conclusion?  Here it is:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6248578/parking-charge-photo-has-been-photoshopped-to-show-my-husbands-reg/p1

Yes, of course. Just on my way out, but will come back to it once home again.

Coupon-mad

Stick with the same email and follow up that SAR from Parkwatch.

Tell them you have not received it and require all photos and copies of any PCN, NTK, and subsequent letters, none of which were received.

Daffodil78

Coupon-mad said:

Stick with the same email and follow up that SAR from Parkwatch.

Tell them you have not received it and require all photos and copies of any PCN, NTK, and subsequent letters, none of which were received.

Will do, thanks. 

Edit to add: would you copy in Gladstones on the communication or just deal with Park Watch direct?

Daffodil78

Letter sent to Park Watch

Does this look reasonable or should I leave out the bit about them responding within seven days? Unsure what is meant to happen if they don't reply within the calendar month. If nothing happens what is the point of having a time limit imposed?Thanks 👍

Dear Sir or Madam,

Subject access request ( Data Protection Act 2018 / General Data Protection Regulations (GDPR) )

I wrote to you on 13th May 2022 with a Subject Access Request. Data protection law requires you to respond to a request for data within one calendar month, yet I have yet to receive this information from you.

I have not received anything from you relating to the LBC sent from Gladstones. I require all photos and copies of any PCN, NTK and subsequent letters sent, as I have not received any of these.

As you are already outside of the calendar month allowed to process and provide this information, I expect you to act on this request within seven days.

If you do not normally deal with these requests, please pass this letter to your Data Protection Officer, or relevant staff member. If you need advice on dealing with this request, the Information Commissioner’s Office can assist you. Its website is ico.org.uk or it can be contacted on 0303 123 1113.

This letter will be posted 1st class with proof of postage and a copy sent via email to the address advertised on your website.
Yours faithfully

Coupon-mad

That is perfect. Certainly include the seven days timeline. Yes, copy in Gladstones. 

Daffodil78

Coupon-mad said:

That is perfect. Certainly include the seven days timeline. Yes, copy in Gladstones. 

Thank you  

Daffodil78

Quick update:

I sent a copy of the letter by email as well as posting it. Park Watch emailed me back, just over an hour later, with a snotty message saying they were still waiting for the paper copy of the V5 that I had promised to send back in May, and they would not start the 30 days until they received it. 

So I emailed them back with a copy of my proof of postage and a scanned copy of the V5 so they could crack on with it straight away. 

This whole process is extremely tedious. I am now fighting purely on principle because I would be better off financially by paying the 'invoice' and working to earn the money to pay for it instead of dealing with them.

Not giving in though.