Late tax return, but HMRC fault

ANGLICANPAT

I had to do tax return to pay small amount of  CGT for a grandchild ( Id sold an investment)  . I needed  a UTR  for them  . HMRC  took months to provide this , and I was assured by both the accountant I used and  HMRC  that  filing  late  would not be a problem  as delay was their backlog not my fault, so no fine .   On receipt of UTR, filed late and  paid the tax at same time   .Couple of months later get a letter saying I hadnt paid  and was overdue.  Wrote back (proof of postage) with proof of payment and  explained the situation in full re the timings and name of HMRC person who had told me there would be no fine.  Month later   a demand comes for the fine amount  .  Is it sufficient  just to send back the same explanatory letter as I sent before  or do I need to do something different like  pay the fine anyway and then argue ?

Dazed_and_C0nfused

Is it a penalty for late filing of the return or late payment of the tax?

ANGLICANPAT

The last letter was for  fine for late filing   

Dazed_and_C0nfused

Did you file the return within 3 months of it being issued?

[Deleted User]

ANGLICANPAT said:

The last letter was for  fine for late filing   

Here we go - but don’t delay!

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/self-assessment-appeal-against-penalties-for-late-filing-and-late-payment-sa370

ANGLICANPAT

Dazed - no  I couldnt because we didnt have the UTR so I rang and explained and  was told to wait for it and  then do return and send  money at same time  and she reassured there would be no fine as delay was their fault .

Purdy - thank you Ill have a go at that today . 

Dazed_and_C0nfused

ANGLICANPAT said:

Dazed - no  I couldnt because we didnt have the UTR so I rang and explained and  was told to wait for it and  then do return and send  money at same time  and she reassured there would be no fine as delay was their fault .

Purdy - thank you Ill have a go at that today . 

That makes absolutely no sense.

You cannot have a return without a UTR so if you got a return there must have been a UTR.

Or do you mean you printed a copy of the internet and filed it without a UTR.  Which is never ever a good idea!

[Deleted User]

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

ANGLICANPAT said:

Dazed - no  I couldnt because we didnt have the UTR so I rang and explained and  was told to wait for it and  then do return and send  money at same time  and she reassured there would be no fine as delay was their fault .

Purdy - thank you Ill have a go at that today . 

That makes absolutely no sense.

You cannot have a return without a UTR so if you got a return there must have been a UTR.

Or do you mean you printed a copy of the internet and filed it without a UTR.  Which is never ever a good idea!

I think that it may be the case that the op had a capital gain and applied for a UTR. It arrived late and a return was duly completed. Upon receipt a filing penalty ensued. But I could be wrong!

Dazed_and_C0nfused

But you always get a minimum of 3 months to complete the return once it's actually been issued.

[Deleted User]

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

But you always get a minimum of 3 months to complete the return once it's actually been issued.

Yes but the onus is on the taxpayer to declare the gain timeously. If you made in capital gain, say in 2020/21, and hadn’t registered at this point there would be a penalty would there not?

Similarly I dealt recently with three sole traders who formed a partnership in 2020/21. None realised that a partnership return was required until one of their accountants realised, too late, that they could not submit a personal tax return as a result. Application for partnership UTR in late January, received after the deadline - results in four late filing penalties. Not really defensible.

Happy to be corrected as I have been out of the loop for some time now.

Penalties

You’ll get a penalty if you need to send a tax return and you miss the deadline for submitting it or paying your bill.

sheramber

It might help if you told us

what date did you sell the shares?

When did you get the UTR from HMRC?

Where did you get the return? If from HMRC , what was the date of issue of that return?

When did you submit the return and payment?