Refurbished smart meters

richard1m

 I recently had a smart meter installed, when I was on E7 tarif.  The engineer who installed it could not show me how to read the meter and siad it would take 24 hrs before the meter would be registered and would give a reading.  Actually I still cant read the meter, only the IHD.  I am now in dispute with the provider as they incorrectly recorded the closing readings on the old meter, to my disadvantage, and it transpired when I got my first statement that the start readings for the smart meter did not begin at zero but 99,xxx or there abouts on both E7 rates.  The supplier is claiming that the smart meeter was a refurbished one which is why the readings did not start at at zero.  The current statements show reading in the hundreds now - I have also switched to single rate tarif.

I find it hard to believe. firstly because I cant imagine that we have reached a stage where people are having meters removed and that they are being recycled. second it seems too much of a coincidence that both readings were within a few hundred units of the maximum (5 digit display).  If they got the closing reading wrong it seems just as likely they made a mistake on the start readings - I have no confidence in them, and they happen to be in administration.

Does anyone know of refurbished smart meters being fitted, and what should the procedure be for notifyng the customer what the start reading is?  Do I  have to take their word for it because it is a "smart" meter?

My dispute is currently with the ombudsman who has found in my favour on the closing meter readings, but is accepting the suppliers position of the refurbished meter with a non zero start reading which the ombudsman says is indisputable, but has not provided any evidence that it was a refurbished meter or any evidence of what the start reading was other than the supplier statement. 

I have to decide whether to accept the ombudsmans decision or dispute it.  Thanks in advance for any ideas on this.

MWT

It is not unusual to have a smart gas meter for example start at 1 or 2 units below zero, but certainly not several hundred units below.

Used smart meters are certainly out there and being installed, but part of the meter swap procedure is for the engineer to record the meter readings on both the original and the replacement and leave a copy of those readings adjacent to the meter.

The Ombudsman is never going to provide you with evidence of anything, their role is simply to form a decision based on the statements provided to them by the two parties, they do not investigate anything beyond those statements.

Astria

Like MWT says, there should be a record of the meter change somewhere near the meter with the date it was changed, the old meter reading and the new meter reading, what do they say the starting reading is? Are you disputing the amount of units that you have used?

richard1m

Astria said:

Like MWT says, there should be a record of the meter change somewhere near the meter with the date it was changed, the old meter reading and the new meter reading, what do they say the starting reading is? Are you disputing the amount of units that you have used?

There is no record of the meter readings left on the date of change, only the suppliers monthly statement

 They say the Day reading started at 99924 and 9 days later was 168

The night reading they say started at 99809 and 9 day later was 74

Yes I am disputing over 200 units since the smart meter was installed

They made errors on the closing readings of 500 and 1500 units of day and night.  I happened to be keeping daily records of consumption and meter readings as I had just had a heat pump installed so was keeping an eye on things, so I am 100% certain of my records.

richard1m

The night reading they say started at 99809 and 9 day later was 74

Yes I am disputing over 200 units since the smart meter was installed

I have also just realised that since replacing storage heaters with a heat pump the ratio of day/night consumption flipped so I was hardly using any night rate electricity after the pump was installed.  So the 265 night and 244 day units consumed in 9 days does not match the ratio of the previous month.

QrizB

richard1m said:

There is no record of the meter readings left on the date of change, only the suppliers monthly statement

•  They say the Day reading started at 99924 and 9 days later was 168
• The night reading they say started at 99809 and 9 day later was 74

Yes I am disputing over 200 units since the smart meter was installed

What do your meters read today? Have you checked?

richard1m

QrizB said:

What do your meters read today? Have you checked?

I have never been able to read the smart meter.  The instructions supplied never allowed me to see any reading, least of all two - I just got heiroglyphics when pressing the buttons in the sequence advised.

The IHD is currently reading about 2200 but I assume this is a total as I have read elsewhere on this forum that the IHD cant report dual rate consumption.  This IHD reading does not match with the statements.

I am now on a single rate tarif which complicated the matter sligthly.

My complaint is also that I dont currently have an independent way to verify the numbers provided on their statement.

In the month before the smart meter was installed I was consuming an average 4kw per day of off peak (previously with storage heaters that was nearly 60kw per day in winter).  According to their statement in the nine days after installing the smart meter I consumed nealy 30kw per day of off peak electric.  30kw per day was my new peak period consumption with the heat pump on mostly during the peak period.  This is proof enough in my mind that they have it wrong.

QrizB

richard1m said:

QrizB said:

What do your meters read today? Have you checked?

I have never been able to read the smart meter.  The instructions supplied never allowed me to see any reading, least of all two - I just got heiroglyphics when pressing the buttons in the sequence advised.

Ok. What make and model is your smart meter? Can you share some photos of these hieroglyphics?

richard1m said:

My complaint is also that I dont currently have an independent way to verify the numbers provided on their statement.

You should be able to take index readings directly from the meter, just as you could previously do with your old meter.

[Deleted User]

richard1m said:

The night reading they say started at 99809 and 9 day later was 74

Yes I am disputing over 200 units since the smart meter was installed

  So the 265 night and 244 day units consumed in 9 days does not match the ratio of the previous month.

Smart meters do not arrive with tariff information or registers set. Each SMETS2 meter has 4 registers. Before a supplier can access your meter to set registers and tariffs, there is a commissioning process that the supplier has to follow. Part of this process is to send out meter security certificates via the DCC.

I had my electricity SMETS2 meter replaced 18 months ago. The old SMETS 2 meter was set up for a dual rate tariff using 2 meter registers. It took the supplier about 10 days to set up my new SMETS2 meter: for these 10 days, I was charged as if the meter was single rate. I not aware of any workaround. Industry processes are not that quick.

I agree with the comment above about The Energy Ombudsman. Energy Ombudsman Services is a private company which is approved by Ofgem to make Decisions on escalated complaints based solely on the evidence provided by the complainant and the supplier.

It is possible to access all 4 registers (index readings) on a smart meter; however, the process is not always intuitive and it often requires the consumer to go into meter sub-menus. A word of caution: instinctively, a consumer might think that the R1 meter index related to peak and R2 offpeak. My meter records offpeak on the R1 register.

richard1m

If anyone should be interested in the outcome of this meter issue with Bulb:

I challenged the Ombudsman decision who then rejected the addiional evidence I submtted to demonstrate the smart meter reading error, in favour of Bulb's position.

Challenge rejected, I thought it was all over, but I was promoted to look at the meter installation again this time with a torch and found a card stuffed behind it just out of sight with the installation engineers closing and opening readings.  The closing readings matched mine and the opening said "0".

With no challenges remaining I messaged the Ombudsman with photos of the card in the hope they would reconsider.  They have and have found in favour of all my claims.  It remains to be seen whether Bulb complies.

The error on the part of Bulb amounted to around £180 of electircity charges over a period of one month.  Whether this was human error or system error or a deliberate attempt to mislead it was not possible to tell.  I doubt whether this was a one off.