Care Home fees outstanding after death

DIYGirlz

Sadly my mum passed away two years ago after 3 years in a (self funded) care home. I was never in favour of this care home and didn't agree to her being there. I had PoA. My mum's carer signed her into the care home despite having no legal right to do so. She (the carer) paid the care home bills but also helped herself to all my mum's savings and spent all her pensions. When I found out I went to the police who agreed with me that the carer was a thief....but they had no proof of actual cash withdrawals. I sold mum's house and used that money to pay her fees until the money ran out. In the last year of mum's life the fees went unpaid. I was unable to find alternative care for her before she died. The care home have spent two years sending increasingly hostile and threatening letters stating that I, as next of kin, must pay the outstanding fees. I am at my wits' end because this runs into thousands and I don't have this. As next of kin, am I liable?

turnitround

Is this the same carer who you said syphoned off over a hundred grand from your father before he died?

mrschaucer

Unless you have signed something with the home making you responsible for your mother's fees, then merely as next of kin you don't have to pay, I would have thought.  Did you agree to "top up" her fees at any stage?
When your mother's money got down to a certain amount, the local authority should have taken over paying the home, surely?

turnitround

How has this been allowed to happen if you have POA? DSid you not have to keep records of whet went in and out of her accounts?

msb1234

If you knew this person was taking money off your mum, why did you not contact the bank to block her? If you had POA, that would have been the most obvious thing to do.

MalMonroe

According to the information in the following link, the person who signs a resident into a care home is responsible. So that would be the thieving carer. Unless you signed an official contract with the care home specifying that you would be responsible for all fees, there's no legal obligation at all.

"Legally, you are not obliged to pay for your family member’s fees. Whether they are your mother or wife, blood relative or relative by law, unless you have any joint assets or contracts you are not financially involved in their care."

https://www.carehome.co.uk/advice/can-i-be-held-responsible-for-my-parents-care-home-fees

If you didn't sign anything then you should write a cease and desist letter to the care home. 

elsien

Did the carer also have power of attorney? If not, then why were they allowed to carry on paying? Did mum have capacity at that point to agree to go into care - this matters because if she did, and she signed the contract then the debts would  be owed by your mother’s estate. Did she have a will and who was the executor/administrator and was there enough in there to cover the amount owed? If not, it would be insolvent. 

Were the local authority involved - surely they should have been as soon as the safeguarding concerns were raised? Why did they not take over funding if mum’s assets had dropped to 23K?
Any liability on your part would not be as next of kin, but because of your responsibility as her power of attorney. What actions did you take in her best interests to safeguard her finances and address the issue once there wasn’t enough money to pay the care home fees? 

ETA - the above applies to England, but your earlier threads reference Scotland. Which jurisdiction was mum under? 

bobster2

turnitround said:

Is this the same carer who you said syphoned off over a hundred grand from your father before he died?

The carer the OP described in this post?
 
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6228450/can-the-executors-of-a-will-refuse-to-pay-a-beneficiary-scotland

tripled

DIYGirlz said:

Sadly my mum passed away two years ago after 3 years in a (self funded) care home. I was never in favour of this care home and didn't agree to her being there. I had PoA. My mum's carer signed her into the care home despite having no legal right to do so. She (the carer) paid the care home bills but also helped herself to all my mum's savings and spent all her pensions. When I found out I went to the police who agreed with me that the carer was a thief....but they had no proof of actual cash withdrawals. I sold mum's house and used that money to pay her fees until the money ran out. In the last year of mum's life the fees went unpaid. I was unable to find alternative care for her before she died. The care home have spent two years sending increasingly hostile and threatening letters stating that I, as next of kin, must pay the outstanding fees. I am at my wits' end because this runs into thousands and I don't have this. As next of kin, am I liable?

A business can't legally transfer a debt owed by one person to someone else, even a close relative, so on the face of it, there is nothing to worry about. Any claim would be against the estate and should be settled from any remaining assets.

However, presumably there was some form of contract in place with the care home, are you involved in that as a guarantor or sponsor in some way? Or did you give them some form of undertaking during the year the fees went unpaid? These could open you up to a potential liability. Also, if you were the executor of your mother's estate and did not discharge your duties properly, they could try making a claim against you as an executor.

===

@tad1938 It gets very confusing having multiple conversations in the same thread, so I've asked for your post to be split into a separate thread.

macman

tripled said:

DIYGirlz said:

Sadly my mum passed away two years ago after 3 years in a (self funded) care home. I was never in favour of this care home and didn't agree to her being there. I had PoA. My mum's carer signed her into the care home despite having no legal right to do so. She (the carer) paid the care home bills but also helped herself to all my mum's savings and spent all her pensions. When I found out I went to the police who agreed with me that the carer was a thief....but they had no proof of actual cash withdrawals. I sold mum's house and used that money to pay her fees until the money ran out. In the last year of mum's life the fees went unpaid. I was unable to find alternative care for her before she died. The care home have spent two years sending increasingly hostile and threatening letters stating that I, as next of kin, must pay the outstanding fees. I am at my wits' end because this runs into thousands and I don't have this. As next of kin, am I liable?

A business can't legally transfer a debt owed by one person to someone else, even a close relative, so on the face of it, there is nothing to worry about. Any claim would be against the estate and should be settled from any remaining assets.

However, presumably there was some form of contract in place with the care home, are you involved in that as a guarantor or sponsor in some way? Or did you give them some form of undertaking during the year the fees went unpaid? These could open you up to a potential liability. Also, if you were the executor of your mother's estate and did not discharge your duties properly, they could try making a claim against you as an executor.

===

@tad1938 It gets very confusing having multiple conversations in the same thread, so I've asked for your post to be split into a separate thread.

This thread is now 6m old. The OP didn't respond back then to any of the questions asked, hasn't logged in since, and isn't likely to now...