Shared Rainwater Drainage issues

anselld

Salb22 said:

Looks like we have to go to a solicitor which is terrible as they are expensive. Honestly the amount of drainage involved is HUGE. I cannot even comprehend the cost of maintaining, repairing and replacing it as well as my own gulley. The neighbours house is massive and the concrete gulley is 31 metres long it runs right along the base of their property this is just the front concrete gulley plus a soakaway. My gulley is just 5 metres long on my house!! This is why we are so stressed as its such a huge gulley compared to ours. 

Surely in the absence of anything in the deeds you would maintain your 5metres and they would have to maintain the 31metres on their own land.  The soak always are another matter, but in the case of the gulley your 50:50 offer is more than generous.
They are not obliged to repair items on their own property but if disrepair is causing flooding on your property outside the normal gully/soakaway setup then this would become a "statutory nuisance" and could be prosecuted as such.

Bendy_House

Thanks for the photos, Salb.

(Anselld, I understand the troughs are on the OP's land, even tho' it mainly serves their neighb's house - galling, eh!)

It's an attractive system, and adds a lot of traditional character to the houses.

Salb, you've been asked - do you have LP on your house insurance?

I suggest you need to get as much information as possible, and this should include downloading a copy of your neighbour's deeds too. It seems strange that something so important, and significant, is not mentioned.

Who owns the house(s) on the left in the second photo? In which direction does that drain run?

And how many neighbours have a similar arrangement, and how do they handle it?

Bendy_House

Just looking into the future, should the issue drag on or even not have a good legal outcome, is there an option to have these gulleys coated (just brushed on) with a waterproofing/sealing compound (I'm thinking products like Cromopol designed for roofs) as a semi or even fully-permanent repair? Your 'own' gulley looks as tho' it has a black coating? These are very effective, but cost little (and can even be DIYed). They fill gaps, and remain flexible.

Do you know your other neighbours? Even if not, it is perfectly reasonable for you to ask them if they mind telling you what arrangements they have for their gulley repairs, and what methods they've used to have them maintained. Ask, in a casual way, whether it's been a shared cost, and pull a face when they reply, "of course!". "Lucky you - it looks as tho' someone expects me to foot the whole multi-£k bill, even tho' they make far greater use of it..." See if you can glean what sort of 'arrangement' they have set up for this, whether a 'gentleperson's agreement', or even something more concrete in their deeds.

Even if it's only a verbal agreement, I dare suggest that this, too, can carry weight in the 'easement' stakes, as your house has also had this arrangement in the past - to your understanding, and it can theoretically be backed up by both former owners - this has always been a shared cost.

Ie, 'easements' seem to be based on what has 'become the norm'. Ok, I DON'T know the law regarding such things, but looking at case examples, often via links on this forum, the ones that have gone 'legal' are usually because they are unclear, and the adjudicator seems to come down on the side that has the more more reasonable case.

Of course, you DON'T actually want to 'go there', but, if your LP agrees that it is relevant, it could be part of a persuasive letter to your selfish neighb.

Bendy_House

If, at the end of all this, it looks as tho' you have to carry the can on your own, would it be worth exploring having a proper soil pipe buried under your path to do the work, and just retain the gullies above as the nice feature that they are? 

Some of the paths look to be gravel, in which case this should hopefully be relatively cheap and easy to do - shallow trench, 4" soil pipe, traps to catch the water.. 

Section62

Salb22 said:

As a comparison this is the our 6.5 metre bit that attaches to our Farmhouse at the front. Its tiny in comparison to the neighbours

Off topic, but that scaffolding standard nearest the door has been set up in a very dangerous manner.  What's the scaffolding being used for?  If people are working on it then they shouldn't be, not until that standard is repositioned so the load is being fully and securely supported.

Section62

Bendy_House said:

Ie, 'easements' seem to be based on what has 'become the norm'. Ok, I DON'T know the law regarding such things, but looking at case examples, often via links on this forum, the ones that have gone 'legal' are usually because they are unclear, and the adjudicator seems to come down on the side that has the more more reasonable case.

This is similar to the situation a few months ago with the terrace of properties where some of the owners had removed their downpipes from a continuous run of gutter, meaning all the drainage was via the second-to-last's downpipe.

Once you accept a neighbour's drainage onto your property it can be very difficult to (legally) stop it.

Where the law isn't clear cut, adjudicators and judges almost always make a decision on the basis of which case is more reasonable.  That's the norm, even if one side goes away still thinking it is totally unreasonable.

Section62

Salb22 said:

Looks like we have to go to a solicitor which is terrible as they are expensive. Honestly the amount of drainage involved is HUGE. I cannot even comprehend the cost of maintaining, repairing and replacing it as well as my own gulley. The neighbours house is massive and the concrete gulley is 31 metres long it runs right along the base of their property this is just the front concrete gulley plus a soakaway. My gulley is just 5 metres long on my house!! This is why we are so stressed as its such a huge gulley compared to ours. 

Can you post copies of the pictures with the position of the boundary marked on them.

You don't need to maintain anything on other people's property (unless, for example, it was your own pipe) the responsibility is for the bit on your land, if nobody else is responsible for it.

Woolsery

It's obviously something better asseessed in the real world than in photos, but  if it were me I might put an intertcepting drain  gulley in at the edge of my property and pipe the water underground to the soak-away. I don't agree that the concrete gullies add anything to the charm of the properties, except perhaps a promise of more expensive maintenance in the future. I'd guess that maybe leaves and other detritus might be a problem, hence the open system, but that could surely be managed with thought and careful specification?

The neighbour would then look after the maintenance of their own section.

Bendy_House

Pleased you have LP, and that could be interesting new info.

Please keep us updated And GOOD LUCK!