Loft DIY

pramsay13

I'm looking to do a bit of DIY work in the loft so looking for a wee bit of help with insulation / heating as the house is quite cold and draughty in the winter.  The loft will just be used in part for storage and part as a den / gaming room for the kids. 

1. We currently have around 100mm of insulation and then the whole loft is floored. There isn't much headroom so I don't want to raise the flooring on stilts to add more insulation, but is it worth replacing with some insulated flooring, something like https://www.panelsystems.co.uk/product/styroloft?

2. There currently isn't enough room to walk upright due to the beam across the top (collar?) Is it worth asking a structural engineer if some of these can be removed to give more room? 

3. I'm looking to plasterboard some of the loft space, so I'll be adding insulation board between the rafters, is it also worth getting insulated plasterboard?

4. Should the loft ladder and opening be included in the part that is boarded, or is it better in the other part that isn't boarded?

Thanks in advance for your help.

FreeBear

So you are trying to do a loft conversion on the cheap.. First question - What size are the joists up there ?

If they are small, they won't take much weight and will flex. This will potentially lead to the ceilings below cracking (or even falling down).

Step ladders are dangerous at the best of times - How will you ensure the children can climb up and down safely, and have you considered emergency egress in the unfortunate event of a fire ?

I suspect your money would be better spent on plugging the draughts and upgrading the insulation where possible. A den for the children along with a DIY workspace may well be better served by a decent shed.

pramsay13

FreeBear said:

So you are trying to do a loft conversion on the cheap.. First question - What size are the joists up there ?

If they are small, they won't take much weight and will flex. This will potentially lead to the ceilings below cracking (or even falling down).

Step ladders are dangerous at the best of times - How will you ensure the children can climb up and down safely, and have you considered emergency egress in the unfortunate event of a fire ?

I suspect your money would be better spent on plugging the draughts and upgrading the insulation where possible. A den for the children along with a DIY workspace may well be better served by a decent shed.

Yes I'm trying to save money on the conversion. I was sure this was a money saving site.

The joists are 150mm x 50mm. 

I have installed a proper loft ladder and floored it and we've been using it for storage already for around 5 years, just wanting to make it a bit more usable in the colder months.

droopsnoot

Leaving aside the structural parts, if you insulate the loft floor more than it already is, won't that make it colder in winter, so less suitable as a den?

Norman_Castle

If you're concerned about the house being cold and drafty leaving the loft hatch open will make it much worse.

FreeBear

OK, so with 150x50mm joists, depending on the span, you shouldn't have too much bounce. The lack of headroom is what kills the idea, and no, you can not just remove structural timbers. I suspect an SE will tell you the same, although he/she may suggest inserting some (expensive) steels as a replacement.

If you are to put insulation between the rafters, an air gap must be left between it and the felt/tiles to allow for ventilation. Even then, it is going to get extremely hot up there during the summer months. In the winter, you will need heating up there (expensive to run) as it is unlikely you will be able to insulate to a high level and still have a usable amount of space. Have you given any thought to background ventilation ?

pramsay13

droopsnoot said:

Leaving aside the structural parts, if you insulate the loft floor more than it already is, won't that make it colder in winter, so less suitable as a den?

Thinking generally about the house as well as it is cold. So more insulation on the floor should help the house, and then insulation boards between the rafters should help the loft.

pramsay13

FreeBear said:

OK, so with 150x50mm joists, depending on the span, you shouldn't have too much bounce. The lack of headroom is what kills the idea, and no, you can not just remove structural timbers. I suspect an SE will tell you the same, although he/she may suggest inserting some (expensive) steels as a replacement.

If you are to put insulation between the rafters, an air gap must be left between it and the felt/tiles to allow for ventilation. Even then, it is going to get extremely hot up there during the summer months. In the winter, you will need heating up there (expensive to run) as it is unlikely you will be able to insulate to a high level and still have a usable amount of space. Have you given any thought to background ventilation ?

That was my worry about the head room although if it's only a den for the kids it wouldn't matter so much if they can't walk fully upright. 
Yes, going to leave air gap between the insulation and the felt. 
What is background ventilation?

FreeBear

pramsay13 said: What is background ventilation?

It is going to get hot and stuffy up there, so you should have some form of ventilation. Either a PIV system, or a window (Velux type with a trickle vent) that can be opened.

Bendy_House

pramsay13 said:

I'm looking to do a bit of DIY work in the loft so looking for a wee bit of help with insulation / heating as the house is quite cold and draughty in the winter.  The loft will just be used in part for storage and part as a den / gaming room for the kids. 

1. We currently have around 100mm of insulation and then the whole loft is floored. There isn't much headroom so I don't want to raise the flooring on stilts to add more insulation, but is it worth replacing with some insulated flooring, something like https://www.panelsystems.co.uk/product/styroloft?

2. There currently isn't enough room to walk upright due to the beam across the top (collar?) Is it worth asking a structural engineer if some of these can be removed to give more room? 

3. I'm looking to plasterboard some of the loft space, so I'll be adding insulation board between the rafters, is it also worth getting insulated plasterboard?

4. Should the loft ladder and opening be included in the part that is boarded, or is it better in the other part that isn't boarded?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Leaving aside potential issues like safety - that has to be your call, and for you to mitigate as much as possible (eg, a couple of smoke/CO alarms up there? A fire extinguisher?), then there's nothing wrong with what you propose - many many folk use their loft as a hobby room (I practically lived up in ours as a kid...).

I think what I'd look to do is:

1) Lift the loft floorboards, and completely fill that 6" gap in there with loft insulation. (Yes, there are 'potential' issues with the wiring up there being 'downrated' as a result of being covered in insulation, but if it's all 'lighting', then it shouldn't be an issue. If you have, say, an electric shower cable running along there, then only have 4-5" of insulation between the joists concerned, and lay that cable on top of this in the remaining gap.

This insulation will mainly benefit the house below (important), but will also negate the need to change the loft flooring for an insulating type - it'll be plenty cosy with normal chipboard flooring on top of this.

And bring the rest of the loft insulation up to 300mm, or whatever the current suggestion is - I'm guessing there are non-boarded strips around the loft eaves?

2) Obviously don't you touch these collars! Two choices, I guess - one is to have an SE in to see if there's any way around it, such as perhaps adding purlins and then removing, say, 2 out of three collars, that sort of thing, but it would obviously need calculating and doing properly. The alternative is to live with it. Seemingly your kids can :-)

3) Look at insulating the loft walls/sides and new loft ceiling, which will make it cosy and more 'room'-like.

For '3', it would help us to have some photos of the current arrangement up there. Are there 'knee' walls?