UC and Council tax Reduction

LocoLoco

Hi, can anyone point me in the right direction?  My 20 year old son lives with me full time.  He has learning disabilities and isn't considered capable of managing his own finances so I'm his DWP appointee.  We moved house recently and the letting agent insisted he had to go on the tenancy agreement when he hadn't been at our last place.  Previously the full rent was just paid through my claim and he received the LCWRA UC and PIP for himself.  Because he's on the tenancy agreement now UC insisted that I couldn't claim for more than half the rent through my claim and I've had to claim the other half through his.  I've applied for a reduction with the council tax and they've come back to me and said that my son isn't a joint tenant, he's a non-dependent and I should claim the full rent through my claim, and that they can't help me until I do.  That's the opposite of what UC told me.  Does anyone know what I ought to be doing?  It makes no practical difference to me how the rent gets paid as long as it does but I feel I'm being passed from pillar to post and I'd like to know what I ought to do next to get things sorted out.  If anyone can help I'd be very grateful.  Thanks in advance.

calcotti

LocoLoco said:

Hi, can anyone point me in the right direction?  My 20 year old son lives with me full time.  He has learning disabilities and isn't considered capable of managing his own finances so I'm his DWP appointee.  We moved house recently and the letting agent insisted he had to go on the tenancy agreement when he hadn't been at our last place.  Previously the full rent was just paid through my claim and he received the LCWRA UC and PIP for himself.  Because he's on the tenancy agreement now UC insisted that I couldn't claim for more than half the rent through my claim and I've had to claim the other half through his.  I've applied for a reduction with the council tax and they've come back to me and said that my son isn't a joint tenant, he's a non-dependent and I should claim the full rent through my claim, and that they can't help me until I do.  That's the opposite of what UC told me.  Does anyone know what I ought to be doing?  It makes no practical difference to me how the rent gets paid as long as it does but I feel I'm being passed from pillar to post and I'd like to know what I ought to do next to get things sorted out.  If anyone can help I'd be very grateful.  Thanks in advance.

UC are right that if he is named on the tenancy as a joint tenant then you are each liable for half the rent. If he is a joint tenant he cannot be classed as a non-dependant.

I can't understand where the council are coming from. If he is named on the tenancy then logically he clearly he is a joint tenant. 

I wonder whether you could add him to the Council Tax bill and then you would both claim CTR for half the CT liability - but it would first be worth checking whether council have understood the rules.

Unfortunately all councils can make their own rules so I can't direct you to legislation. Are you willing to say what council you are dealing with?

LocoLoco

Thanks Calcotti, I'll go back to the council to check with them.  I'm a bit paranoid about saying where we are as we recently had to move to get away from a drug dealer (!) and I'm a bit paranoid about something I say online giving away where we are, but knowing that UC are correct in what they say is a big help, I'll go back to the council and get it sorted out with them.  I'll ask them about the council tax bill - we also qualify for exemptions as SMI and Carer but that bit hasn't been processed yet and we'd still need to pay something, apparently, but we can get a reduction on that bit.  It is confusing as they all have different rules, as you say.  I'll speak to the council tomorrow and get it sorted out, it's a big help just knowing which of them to go to so thank you for the information, it's much appreciated.

marcia_

 Is your son able to sign a tenancy agreement? 

Understands it, the responsibility and consequences? 

calcotti

For UC
The Universal Credit Regulations 2013 (legislation.gov.uk)

Schedule 4
Para 9 (2) A person is a non-dependant if the person normally] lives in the accommodation with the renter (or joint renters) and is none of the following—
..
(d) a person who is liable to make payments on a commercial basis in respect of the person's occupation of the accommodation (whether to the renter, joint renters or another person);..

nicx83

Have you sent your local authority a copy of the new tenancy? With uc they really do not see the tenancy agreements anymore unless you send it in. 

elmer

If He is classed as SMI, he cant be liable or apply for CTR, I suspect this may be the issue for the council

calcotti

marcia_ said:

 Is your son able to sign a tenancy agreement? 

Understands it, the responsibility and consequences? 

Very good question. It sounds like OP has been forced into the situation but if son is SMI it does call into question whether or not his signature has any legal validity.

LocoLoco

marcia_ said:

 Is your son able to sign a tenancy agreement? 

Understands it, the responsibility and consequences? 

Hi Marcia, no, absolutely not but the letting agent insisted.  It's ridiculous because if there's any kind of problem it wouldn't stand up in court anyway, he doesn't have capacity but they wouldn't let us move in without doing it and we didn't have anywhere else to go.  It's caused a lot of problems with his UC claim because he didn't have any other documentation to prove he lives here, like a utility bill or bank statement.

LocoLoco

elmer said:

If He is classed as SMI, he cant be liable or apply for CTR, I suspect this may be the issue for the council

Thank you, elmer, I'll try and get them on the phone tomorrow and see if I can sort it all out then, we got the various discounts/exemptions before without any problems (different county) so it seems to be this tenancy agreement that's problematic.  Hopefully I can get something sorted out when I speak to them, thank you.

LocoLoco

nicx83 said:

Have you sent your local authority a copy of the new tenancy? With uc they really do not see the tenancy agreements anymore unless you send it in. 

Hi nic, I feel like everyone in the country has seen my tenancy agreement now!  I took all the paperwork in to UC for them to check through and have sent everything I've been asked to to the council - which I think was copies of our UC statements rather than the tenancy agreement but obviously it shows the amount of rent being paid on that.