Advice please - sibling wants to buy family home

GDB2222

pleasedelete said:

diystarter7 said:

pleasedelete said:

Much more complicated than you make out
Capital Gains tax on whichever house  he doesnt live in- has he factored that in? 
Deprivation of assets- how old is he?
What other assets does he have? Is inheritance tax going to be an issue- how old is he- what is his health like?

He needs to take financial advice. 

No financial advice need as he appears to have capacity.
However, I have thumbs upped you post as it can apply to some.
However, in this case based on the info to hand, dad
will do what he wants and he more than enough to live as he wants.

As I said in my previous post, the OP needs to say that to his dad as I'm more worried re sister having the capacity to manage a mortgage and a property.

Of course he needs financial advice, it isnt dependent on capacity, he needs to understand his liability and get advice as to whether it can be mitigated in any way. 
He is 72 and owns 2 homes. 
He needs advice on CGT and deprivation of assets. At 72 it will be seen as deprivation of assets if he needs care. 
We also don't know whatever other assets he owns- so may need broader inheritance advice. 

I don't see how deprivation of assets will come into it, as Dad will continue to own the Norfolk property, worth say £1m. 

I agree that Dad - indeed, the whole family - needs financial advice. There's CGT in particular to worry about, plus possibly early repayment charges on the mortgage.  

elsien

Plus he says he’s not going to marry again but people do change their mind. If you agree to a larger share of the Norfolk house then marriage may mean all bets are off. 

Keep_pedalling

You should make him aware that he potentially will have a significant CGT liability which will be base on the market value of the property not any discounted price to his children. 

Preferable do this before the meeting.

Sea_Shell

sienew said:

Bowties said:

One suggestion that I did hear was that I was going to get a larger percentage of the Norfolk property to make up the difference that my sister cannot afford in his will

This is where things can get rough if you aren't careful. It can be tempting to maybe accept less today for the promise of a larger amount in the future but wills can be charged at any time. 

Your father might not have any money left when he dies. He might want to give it to someone else. He might outlive you. You might fall out. You mentioned your sister is very persuasive, your father being healthy gives her plenty of time in the future to persuade him to change the will (not saying she will do this but it's a possibility). There are so many potential pitfalls. It's the worst of all worlds.

I expect this is the suggestion your sister is going to push hardest so be ready for it.

I agree.   Where money/inheritance is concerned "promises" of tomorrow, could turn out to amount to diddly squat.

You need fair, up front!!   If he wants to make equal gifts at this time.

Anything else is just storing up potential problems or ill feelings later.

Stand your ground...and good luck.

stig

Please do remember they both houses are your dads property to do with exactly what  he pleases - this is a gift, NOT an inheritance (which may well be 20 or more years in the future). 

If he decides to sell his London property and donate the equity to charity, give it all to the OPs sister, or blow it all on a luxury cruise, then as long as he has capacity you have no say in the decision. All you are responsible for is how you react to his decision.

Someone is kindly offering to give you some of their money, a substantial sum - the only thing you have to ‘agree’ to is to accept it, or not. Of course giving different amounts to siblings, especially by a parent, might cause significant problems with family  relationships - but that’s a completely different issue to who is in control of making the gift, which is 100% the donor.

So, if you are going to discuss this as a family, I would stay clear of setting out what you ‘expect’ or ‘want’ to receive ( it’s a gift to you, remember) but concentrate on sharing how receiving less favourable treatment than your sister would make you feel and how it might affect family relationships now, which can’t be balanced  up by  a possible future inheritance which may never happen (what if dad lives to 100 and you predecease him?)

and please don’t think of it as an advance inheritance - inheritance is how someone’s assets are shared out after they die and is legally set out via a will or the rules of intestacy, this is a gift to you by someone alive who can do what they want with their assets.

Sea_Shell

I agree with Stig, to a point and that is if Dad has already said that he wants to make "equal" gifts.

Yes, he might change his mind (or have it changed😉), but maybe OP can confirm if Dad actually used the word "equal" or 50/50 etc.

Mojisola

stig said:

Someone is kindly offering to give you some of their money, a substantial sum - the only thing you have to ‘agree’ to is to accept it, or not. Of course giving different amounts to siblings, especially by a parent, might cause significant problems with family  relationships - but that’s a completely different issue to who is in control of making the gift, which is 100% the donor.

While that's true, if the father does want to give equally but the OP doesn't feel that the planned gifts are fair, I would hope the father would like them to speak up.

There was a programme some years ago about parents making wills with what they thought were fair distributions which were then discussed with the adult children and the presenter/mediator. 

In a couple of cases, some of the children were extremely upset for reasons the parents hadn't thought about and the parents were devastated to think that the wills could have caused a lot of emotional pain to some of their offspring when it was too late for them to change things.  As it was, they were able to take on board their children's concerns and divide their estates in different ways and explain their reasons where estates weren't being left equally.

We've always been very open with our children and they have copies of our wills and understand our reasoning.

secla

It’s your dads money/house he can do what he sees fit with it. Peoples sense of entitlement to there parents money seems very strange to me. You really have no real say over his decision 

Sea_Shell

secla said:

It’s your dads money/house he can do what he sees fit with it. Peoples sense of entitlement to there parents money seems very strange to me. You really have no real say over his decision 

But if Dad has already said that he wanted to give them the money from the sale of the house equally, then any arrangement for one of them to get more benefit won't be what he intended or wanted to achieve.

I was pointing out that a promise of their gift "later", could end up amounting to a big fat nothing!!

Dad might need to be gently reminded that this could happen, and to try and avoid it, if that's what he really wants.

sienew

secla said:

It’s your dads money/house he can do what he sees fit with it. Peoples sense of entitlement to there parents money seems very strange to me. You really have no real say over his decision 

From my understanding of the OP's situation, their father wants to split things 50/50. The poster seems worried that their sister and her husband may try to manipulate the situation to their advantage, especially given there is a meeting to decide .

I think most of us have seen people manipulated for money, especially for inheritances which are often incredibly large sums of money.