Council claiming.

Undervalued

jon81uk said:

user1977 said:

diystarter7 said:

Deleted_User said:

If it's just a property and a car, then it's not covered by the DPA.

In relation to the councils obligations and your post, where does it state that "DPA" does not apply?

To be more precise, when the OP is talking about "my GDPR" they (I think!) mean making a data subject access request. That's in relation to data held in respect of which the OP is the data subject. That doesn't include photos merely by virtue of the photos depicting items owned by the OP.

Whereas I think the issue is that the OP didn't like the photos were taken, which is why I suggested that trespass is the bigger issue.
"I want to exercise my right to see what personal data relating to me you hold"
is very different to "I don't think you should have photos of my house"
and thats different again to "you did not have permission to enter my land and take photographs".

Trespass, in itself, isn't a criminal offence. You can only ask the "trespasser" to leave and, in extreme, if they refuse you can use the minimum necessary force to remove them. Be very careful in exercising that right!

Just because somebody has trespassed doesn't give the landowner any additional rights over photographs they may have taken. 

eskbanker

Fragglekid38 said:

Unfortunately there is more concern with regards to GDPR than there is trespassing 🤷‍♀️!! The council would have more to answer to if they breeched my GDPR than they would for trespassing, hence my original question. 

Not sure what you mean by 'there is more concern' - do you mean that you're more concerned about GDPR or that others are? 

Anyway, breaches of the Data Protection Act (the UK's implementation of GDPR) only tend to result in punitive enforcement action from the ICO if they're particularly deliberate and/or widespread, so IMHO it's extremely unlikely that there would be any meaningful sanction on the council even if you were to be able to make a case to the ICO that the council breached your data protection rights by taking some photos and/or not considering them as personal data when responding to a subject access request.

What outcome are you actually hoping for?

jon81uk

Undervalued said:

jon81uk said:

user1977 said:

diystarter7 said:

Deleted_User said:

If it's just a property and a car, then it's not covered by the DPA.

In relation to the councils obligations and your post, where does it state that "DPA" does not apply?

To be more precise, when the OP is talking about "my GDPR" they (I think!) mean making a data subject access request. That's in relation to data held in respect of which the OP is the data subject. That doesn't include photos merely by virtue of the photos depicting items owned by the OP.

Whereas I think the issue is that the OP didn't like the photos were taken, which is why I suggested that trespass is the bigger issue.
"I want to exercise my right to see what personal data relating to me you hold"
is very different to "I don't think you should have photos of my house"
and thats different again to "you did not have permission to enter my land and take photographs".

Trespass, in itself, isn't a criminal offence. You can only ask the "trespasser" to leave and, in extreme, if they refuse you can use the minimum necessary force to remove them. Be very careful in exercising that right!

Just because somebody has trespassed doesn't give the landowner any additional rights over photographs they may have taken. 

Yep I know its very much that unless you catch them doing it then you don't have a lot that can be done.

Not sure if the OP knows there isn't much that can be done other than complaining at the council that someone entered without permission and getting an apology.

RogerBareford

[Deleted User] said:

Ok to cut a long story short I have had some very disturbing behaviour displayed by the council in relation to my disabled daughter. We submitted a planning application they came for a site visit my daughter to “review” the application my daughter was in the garden and told me that a lady was talking photos in my back garden of my house, they did not have permission to take photos and due to my daughter I would not have given permission, she had gone before I could challenge. I have had planning applications before and they have never take photos, I have spoken to other people down the road who have had extensions and the local councillor and photos have not been taken in relation to other similar applications.  I requested my GDPR as I was concerned as to what photos had been taken (because of the issues with my daughter) These were missing from my GDPR.  When I queried this the council told me the photos weren’t GDPR hence brushing the whole thing aside.  So I hope you can understand why I asked the question.  My property and car can not be viewed from the road.  Also my planning application was submitted in Jan 2021 and remains undealt with and I haven’t even queried this with them as I’m sure you can understand I have had more important issues to deal with. 

How do you know they have never taken photos before? If you daughter hadn't told you then you wouldn't have know they had taken them this time so they could have easily done them before without you knowing.

Ergates

[Deleted User] said:

Ok to cut a long story short I have had some very disturbing behaviour displayed by the council in relation to my disabled daughter. We submitted a planning application they came for a site visit my daughter to “review” the application my daughter was in the garden and told me that a lady was talking photos in my back garden of my house, they did not have permission to take photos and due to my daughter I would not have given permission, she had gone before I could challenge. I have had planning applications before and they have never take photos, I have spoken to other people down the road who have had extensions and the local councillor and photos have not been taken in relation to other similar applications.  I requested my GDPR as I was concerned as to what photos had been taken (because of the issues with my daughter) These were missing from my GDPR.  When I queried this the council told me the photos weren’t GDPR hence brushing the whole thing aside.  So I hope you can understand why I asked the question.  My property and car can not be viewed from the road.  Also my planning application was submitted in Jan 2021 and remains undealt with and I haven’t even queried this with them as I’m sure you can understand I have had more important issues to deal with. 

I have a planning application underway at present and a planning officer came round last week to take photos - so clearly it *is* a thing they do at least some of the time.  I work from home these days so I was in when he arrived, I assume that had I been out he would still have taken the photos as they were relevant to the application.

It's possible that with previous applications and/or the applications of the people you spoke to, photos were taken but you/they were not aware of it happening.  This time, if your daughter hadn't spotted the person taking the photos you'd not have known it had happened.  It's also possible that the processes they follow have changed since your/their last applications.

Check the small print of the application request - it may well say that by submitting this request you give the council permission to gather any information necessary to process your request, which may include taking photos.   If they deem that photos of the property are a necessary part of the application, and you refused permission to take the photos then it seems likely that your application would be refused.

Regarding GDPR - a vehicle registration plate *can* be covered by GDPR *if* it is linked to other information - e.g. an address or other location.   A picture of your vehicle *at* your address doesn't necessarily mean this is the case as a photo of an address doesn't necessarily identify the address, but if the photo was attached to a document that gave your address then that might be the case.   However as it's a planning application, then it would already have to identify you as the party involved so the car registration can't really be said to be identifying information. 
Short version:  Whilst it's not 100% clear, the council aren't necessarily correct to say that a photo of your car at your address isn't covered by GDPR and they probably should have supplied it.

However, that would only be pertinent with regards to *how* the council look after the data and who they can send it to.  Organisations (including councils) are entitled to hold data that is covered by GDPR if/when they have a valid reason to do so.  Photos taken as part of a planning review would probably be considered a valid reason, though they'd only be able to use the information (photos) for that particular process (i.e. wouldn't be able to use them on some leaflet they made on a different subject, and couldn't sell them on to a 3rd party).  Obviously, without seeing the photos in question and/or fully understanding the planning process we can't say for sure, but the short version is:  The council haven't necessarily breached GDPR by taking the photos and you don't necessarily have an automatic right to demand the council *don't* keep them.

A final note:   GDPR is the name of the piece of legislation that covers the gathering, usage and storage of personal information.  It is *not* the name of the information itself.   If you've been contacting the council and asking for "my GDPR" this might be confusing matters as that doesn't really make sense.  It's an SAR you've been submitted - hopefully you called it that.

Undervalued

What an excellent post ^^^^^^

Just to add, possibly related, some years ago I called our Council's environmental health about what I consider to be a potential health risk next door. The officer who came went round to the neighbour's garden, whilst they were out, looked in sheds etc and took a number of photos. Maybe they have specific powers? More likely, they take the view that the worst that can happen is that they are asked to leave. In which case, in a serious enough situation they could presumably get a court order.

With a planning application I would imagine somewhere in the small print permission has been granted. In a planning enforcement dispute I expect they could get an order if permission was refused.

Somewhere I saw a list of organisations who have the power (or can easily get permission) to enter private property. It is a far longer list than most people would expect.