What is a 'Fleecehold' House

daivid

Whilst I accept this is entirely anecdotal, my experience is that estates with service charges are getting less not more. I moved from a late 2000s (unadopted) new build estate to a 1970's estate (adopted). The estate I've moved to has the nicer layout and the additional facilities. I appreciate that there are intervening years between the building of the estate and the cessation of automatic adoption by councils where standards may have slid. It may also be because I live in a cheaper part of the country, but the trend here is new builds are built to the minimum standard and developers 'forget' to build the facilities agreed when planning was initially given.

Megaross

My understanding was the maintenance charges were extortionate or went up rapidly to extortionate amounts.

£60 annually isn't too bad but check terms and possibility it will rise.

I'd never own a property with a service charge again having had bad experiences, mine went up from £600 to nearly £900 in 3 years on my first place (coach house). And the site looked scruffier and scruffier over those years so god only knows what they were spending it on - lesson learned (young naive house buyer, bought in anger after a bad breakup).

maton91

hidden_sacrifice said:

Fleecehold isn’t an actual term. But new build developments sell freehold houses but have a maintenance charge so people think they’re getting fleeced. I personally don’t see an issue. We’ve offered on a freehold property with an annual charge but the way I see it is if I lived in an older house, I’d be pretty peed off if my council tax kept going up every time a new build development went up as it’s more areas to maintain. 

daivid said:

'fleecehold' is where the property is leasehold, with a lease that can be raised greatly in future (costing the homeowner a lot and potentially making the property unsellable).

Maintenance charges are very different but you will still want to consider potential future costs e.g. how much might you have to pay if… ..the roads all need resurfacing/whatever other potential large costs apply to the estate 

One reply says freehold, one says leasehold?

The house I am buying is freehold with an annual maintenace charge for surrounding area upkeep. Does that mean it's a fleecehold?

maisie_cat

Johnnyh123 said:

I find it complete madness that people defend it.  When a new build estate is set up the council are getting the tax income without the expense.  The expense is being passed on to the consumer.  It’s another example of rip off Britain.  The fact that these charges are basically unregulated should be setting alarm bells off for people but there seems to be a bit of Stockholm syndrome kicking in.  In about 20-30 years (or maybe less) there’s going to be a “scandal” on the level of cladding where there’s thousands of unadopted roads falling into disrepair that bin lorries etc refuse to go down and require residents to fork out thousands to fix which is what your council tax goes towards. These houses will become unsellable.  It’s all foreseeable big it’s essentially another stealth tax these governments we’ve had for decades get away with passing on to people unfairly.

In my council area 87% of the council tax is spent on education and social care. It would therefore seem fair that councils get the development ongoing council tax income and the ongoing liability for the people living there.

Choirgrl

maton91 

One reply says freehold, one says leasehold?

The house I am buying is freehold with an annual maintenace charge for surrounding area upkeep. Does that mean it's a fleecehold?

Google ‘fleecehold’ and the top entry says “Fleecehold refers to the inclusion of onerous terms in the deeds of a freehold property or the lease of a leasehold property in the United Kingdom.” 

Do the terms include provision for charges beyond the annual maintenance charge? Is there provision for annual maintenance charge to rise significantly above £60/year? Do you consider £60/year onerous?

If it the only thing you’re looking at is a modest maintenance charge for upkeep, that wouldn’t concern me, and if £60/year seems onerous then, in my opinion, you should maybe rethink if buying a house is right for you. 

maton91

Choirgrl said:

maton91 

One reply says freehold, one says leasehold?

The house I am buying is freehold with an annual maintenace charge for surrounding area upkeep. Does that mean it's a fleecehold?

Google ‘fleecehold’ and the top entry says “Fleecehold refers to the inclusion of onerous terms in the deeds of a freehold property or the lease of a leasehold property in the United Kingdom.” 

Do the terms include provision for charges beyond the annual maintenance charge? Is there provision for annual maintenance charge to rise significantly above £60/year? Do you consider £60/year onerous?

If it the only thing you’re looking at is a modest maintenance charge for upkeep, that wouldn’t concern me, and if £60/year seems onerous then, in my opinion, you should maybe rethink if buying a house is right for you. 

No of £60 is not onerous, I just didn't know if this small maintenance charge could be classed as a 'fleecehold' property or not. I'm aware it may fluctuate but the word 'onerous' is very subjective

user1977

maton91 said:

Choirgrl said:

maton91 

One reply says freehold, one says leasehold?

The house I am buying is freehold with an annual maintenace charge for surrounding area upkeep. Does that mean it's a fleecehold?

Google ‘fleecehold’ and the top entry says “Fleecehold refers to the inclusion of onerous terms in the deeds of a freehold property or the lease of a leasehold property in the United Kingdom.” 

Do the terms include provision for charges beyond the annual maintenance charge? Is there provision for annual maintenance charge to rise significantly above £60/year? Do you consider £60/year onerous?

If it the only thing you’re looking at is a modest maintenance charge for upkeep, that wouldn’t concern me, and if £60/year seems onerous then, in my opinion, you should maybe rethink if buying a house is right for you. 

No of £60 is not onerous, I just didn't know if this small maintenance charge could be classed as a 'fleecehold' property or not.

Does it matter what you call it?

Choirgrl

maton91 said:

No of £60 is not onerous, I just didn't know if this small maintenance charge could be classed as a 'fleecehold' property or not. I'm aware it may fluctuate but the word 'onerous' is very subjective

Yep, onerous is a subjective term, so is ‘fleecehold’. What one person sees as fair /proportionate /worth paying for what it covers, the person next door may see as being fleeced. Bottom line, make sure you understand the full extent of the requirements, decide if you’re happy with them, and then either go ahead with purchase if you are happy with them or don’t if you’re not.

Norman_Castle

maton91 said:

hidden_sacrifice said:

Fleecehold isn’t an actual term. But new build developments sell freehold houses but have a maintenance charge so people think they’re getting fleeced. I personally don’t see an issue. We’ve offered on a freehold property with an annual charge but the way I see it is if I lived in an older house, I’d be pretty peed off if my council tax kept going up every time a new build development went up as it’s more areas to maintain. 

daivid said:

'fleecehold' is where the property is leasehold, with a lease that can be raised greatly in future (costing the homeowner a lot and potentially making the property unsellable).

Maintenance charges are very different but you will still want to consider potential future costs e.g. how much might you have to pay if… ..the roads all need resurfacing/whatever other potential large costs apply to the estate 

One reply says freehold, one says leasehold?

The house I am buying is freehold with an annual maintenace charge for surrounding area upkeep. Does that mean it's a fleecehold?

"Fleecehold" isn't a type of ownership. Fleecehold is a term for a property with extortionate terms or costs. It describes a freehold or lease where the holder is being fleeced.

Section62

Norman_Castle said:

maton91 said:

hidden_sacrifice said:

Fleecehold isn’t an actual term. But new build developments sell freehold houses but have a maintenance charge so people think they’re getting fleeced. I personally don’t see an issue. We’ve offered on a freehold property with an annual charge but the way I see it is if I lived in an older house, I’d be pretty peed off if my council tax kept going up every time a new build development went up as it’s more areas to maintain. 

daivid said:

'fleecehold' is where the property is leasehold, with a lease that can be raised greatly in future (costing the homeowner a lot and potentially making the property unsellable).

Maintenance charges are very different but you will still want to consider potential future costs e.g. how much might you have to pay if… ..the roads all need resurfacing/whatever other potential large costs apply to the estate 

One reply says freehold, one says leasehold?

The house I am buying is freehold with an annual maintenace charge for surrounding area upkeep. Does that mean it's a fleecehold?

"Fleecehold" isn't a type of ownership. Fleecehold is a term for a property with extortionate terms or costs. It describes a fleehold or lease where the holder is being fleeced.

Is that something like a property infested with biting parasitic insects?